show character and BOYCOTT Indonesian fish

[MandarinFish]

Anthony Calfo, speaking at a club meeting I attended, told a story of a journalist documenting (among other things) the cyanide fishing of Indonesia (illegal in that country, practiced widespread regardless).

When the photographer went to leave the country, armed government officials met him at the airport and confiscated all equipment which documented the cyanide fishing. He put up a protest, and they responded with threats of violence at gunpoint.

(help me if I got a detail wrong, but this is basically what I heard)

Animal Planet just had a show on Komodo dragons and threats to their survival. In spite of their islands being labelled a national wildlife refuge and park, fishermen looking for *LIVE AQUARIUM FISH* use cyanide to hunt the fish out.

The footage showed massive montipora colonies the fish will try to hide in, then get cyanide poured in until they float out, stunned.

Then the corals die.

For every 1 fish pulled from Indonesia like this, a *square yard* of living coral dies.

Stop the demand. Buy Hawaiian or Australian, or, God forbid, tank raised or captive reared fish instead.

Anyone saying we are not part of the problem is in denial. The demand fuels the hunting and cyanide is easy and sanctioned in spite of the law.

http://nature.org/joinanddonate/rescuereef/preserves

Stand up for the dying reefs, show character, and don't encourage this.

Please.

Since the 1960's, more than a million kilograms of deadly sodium cyanide has been squirted onto coral reefs in the Philippines to stun and capture ornamental aquarium fish destined for the pet shops and aquariums of Europe and North America. More recently, a growing demand for larger reef fish has vastly increased the incidence and spread of cyanide fishing. Cyanide kills corals and reef invertebrates along with many non-target fish.

Coral reefs are currently one of the most endangered ecosystems on the planet. If the present rate of destruction continues, 70% of the world's coral reefs will be killed within our lifetimes.

 

[Bob Gardner]

I applaude your sentiments but do not see how we can carry out your suggestion unless we stop buying all fish. I can't tell if a fish has come from Indonesia by looking at it in a tank, can you? The same fish that swim in Indonesian waters are also available from all over the Indian Ocean and Pacific tropical areas. Far better to lobby your suppliers and let them know how you feel and if it's possible then do what has been done before and get an organisation going for other like minded people to join and make a joint lobby to wherever it is likely to have most effect. I don't think that it will have much affect on the trade to tell us here exceptperhaps to gain some support for your future efforts. The U.K. is a small country and due to that we only have a few major importers of fish and corals. Certainly the largest of those makes a point of advertising the fact that they only get their stock from legitamate and legal sources with no cyanide fishing being done. Another point to think of is that if your LFS is stocking fish caught with cyanide you are likely to notice it pretty quickly if you make a purchase due to the high mortality rate of fish caught in this way. So you can stop using that LFS if their fish die on you. I would think that you might do that anyway regardless of possible cyanide contamination.

Just my opinion
Bob

 

[Anonymous]

It is really depressing to read stuff like this. I hope I can live to see captive breeding of marine ornamentals taken to the next level, so we can put this kind of collector out of business. Talk about giving the hobby a bad name. :evil:

 

[MandarinFish]

if you read Bob, there are alternatives. And any LFS owner worth their salt knows where their shipments are coming from.

Captive breeding science can advance, but people need to be committed to trying it and supporting it.

See the tropical bird hobby; in the US at least it has gone from near-exclusively wild caught to the opposite.

It can happen.

Avoid Indonesian fish and support the alternatives.

 

[Anonymous]

Show character and get out of the hobby. There is no trade if there is no demand.

 

[jamesw]

If a "chain-of-custody" system is set up by MAC, then we the consumers WILL know where our fish are coming from, allowing us to make decisions as informed consumers.

Wouldn't that be nice?

www.aquariumcouncil.org for details

Cheers
James Wiseman

 

[Kalkbreath]

Keep in mind that the food fish industry is 40 times larger then the pet fish collection ,fishing the same reefs........food fishing also uses blast fishing> So to end Aquarium hobby collection there would only mean that those same fishermen would just work for the food fish industry..........Keeping no coral from harm.........The USA wholesalers know that Indonesia fish are for the most part "Juiced" Most of these fish are not headed to the USA . The quote "the demand for larger fish " is a tel tale sign that the demand is from Asia......the American large fish market is small..........
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[beerbaron]

so since the industrial companies do more illegal dumping, waste more water and waste an immence amount of electricity, i should start throwing bags of trash out of the car window, let my spickot run 24/7 and never turn off the lights? we shoulndt deny our part in controling the industry, just so we can remove our piece of the reef and put it in our livingroom. i would rather grow my own. thanks MandarinFish im glad not everyone blames something else and denies there involvement.

 

[MandarinFish]

thx BeerBaron,

I totally agree.

Some people don't want to accept responsibility and continue to act unabated, purchasing anything with the justification that it's all bad or someone else is worse.

Yeah, Asia has messed up animal markets. Of course.

Just because there is an Asian black market in tiger penis and elephant tusks doesn't mean we should buy it "because they are worse."

Flawed logic.

There are alternatives. For the third time, you can get fish that aren't wild caught at all, are caught in plantonic stage, are certified net-caught from other places, are caught in regions where cyanide and blast fishing simply are not used.

"Show character and get out of the hobby. There is no trade if there is no demand." - Show character and leave the board.

I haven't bought wild-caught Indonesian fish.

You shouldn't either.

Until there are legitimate, tight chain-of-custody certifications, just avoid Indonesian fish, which your local store *IS* completely aware they are purchasing because of DEMAND.

Yes, wild-caught Indonesian fishin for this hobby is creating serious problems directly as a result of demand by people who won't own up to their contribution when they buy the pretty fish or coral they don't happen to care the origins of.

Don't listen to Rex Banner, BeerBaron. He will get the catapult for his zealotry.

 

[Kalkbreath]

so since the industrial companies do more illegal dumping, waste more water and waste an immence amount of electricity, i should start throwing bags of trash out of the car window, let my spickot run 24/7 and never turn off the lights? we shoulndt deny our part in controling the industry, .

.................. No but if we remove the ONLY reason the natives have to keep a healthy reef , then whats to keep them from more blast fishing and more cyanide fishing { these fishermen use cyanide to food fish as well and there is a good chance that the collection witnessed was for food.which is many times larger........the colection of larger fish I was speaking of that go to Japan are for Live food .groupers are sold by the thousands for this reason. The main reason there is so much coral killing is that the natives have no use for the coral .they build there homes out of it. The areas with the most damage are where there is NO coral collection. Places like the Tonga islands there is little distructive fishing because the reefs' coral is their farm!
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[Lynn]

Thanks Manderinfish for bringing it up to everyone's attention.
I believe there are definitely things that can be done.
1. Write to or send peditions to the Indonesia government demanding cyanide be banned totally. Expressing the fact that you will never support anything their country offers in the future.
2. You can yourself never buy fish from any place here that offers them from Indonesia. Each and every LFS knows where there fish are caught and probably how the fish are caught. If they can't tell you, then don't buy off of them. I refuse to buy any fish from Petcetra here, as they can't tell me where they come from or if they have been cyanide caught.
3. Do what Manderfish has done. Spread the word! Educate as many people as you can about the industry. It's the only way we all learn and can care about such things. The old saying" You can make a difference" is true.

 

[jamesw]

Cyanide is already totally banned there. Same goes for the Phillipines. However, its use is still rampant there.

Sound familiar? If you need an analogy here in the states, do a search on marijuana.

All of this has already been debated to death about the same exact subject - except it was (and still is) the Phillipines, instead of Indonesia. Nothing has changed.

Cheers
James Wiseman

 

[MandarinFish]

Exactly - except the US Gov't doesn't protect marijuana growers or users.

And marijuana only hurts the user, and only arguably at that. In fact, it's better for the environment in like a million ways compared to it's rival products.

I totally agree... boycott Phillipino and Indonesian fish unless there is a certification of net-caught and chain-of-custody.

Or go with one of the numerous alternatives.

 

[JeremyR]

I've been boycotting indo & phil fish for sometime... a couple of times, I have tried so called net caught phil fish, and was disappointed in the results.

 

[skylsdale]

- Show character and leave the board.

This comeback doesn't even make sense... :?

Good intentions with boycotting...but it's going to take a lot more than just "spreading the word" about this issue to get people to act. Getting the majority of hobbyists to boycott Indonesion and Phil fish is like getting them to fork out the extra cash for captive bred specimens. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I rarely see issues like this make it past the "rally up the troops" stage.

 

[Anonymous]

You guys have obviously never heard from cwa246 before. He always tries to absolve himself from the guilt of reefkeeping with such petty off-the-cuff comments.

One time, he had a genuine good thought, so let's not deprive him of the benefit of the doubt.

 

[MandarinFish]

I respectfully disagree about the impact.

I am not an Indonesian game and parks official who can imprison and punish, so my impact is limited.

BUT I know that I started with the intention of only getting captive-bred fish, bought "used" fish from people leaving the hobby, needed certain species for specific uses, but never bought Indo. / Phillipino wild caught.

I know others who have joined me in boycotting.

The fish are unhealthy, the reefs get destroyed. It's cheaper to just buy net caught or captive bred/raised fish anyway since the mortality in our tanks is negligible too.

It seems like all but one person are on the same page, and I bring it up because it has been presented to me recently in painful, factual, evidence-backed detail.

We CAN make a difference.

Yes, I believe in supporting net-caught, certified, sustainable fish to support local economies.

Problem is, it doesn't happen like this whatsoever. The Indonesian gov't is in on cyanide fishing for OUR tanks.

Don't reward this. You don't have to.

 

[Anonymous]

Is there any way the customer can know where the fish came from for sure?
If I was the evil dude in the LFS, and somebody came in and asked me where the fish was caught, I would say Hawaii all the time.
How's anyone to know the difference?

 

[DK]

The LFS often uses local or regional wholesalers for their fish (and corals) if you find out the wholesaler, you may be able to get information about where they get their fish and how it is collected. Just a thought.

 

[JeremyR]

Moe.. crack open books, or look on fishbase.. and it will tell you where the fish comes from. Say you are dying to have a sixline wrasse... look it up, and you'll find it doesn't come from hawaii, so when the evil LFS tells you it's from hawaii you'll know he's a liar.

Problem is nobody wants to do any research, they just want to buy the pretty fish in front of them...