5 Gallon Nano tank

[trido]

I dont know about all of the minute molecular and biological details. I do however, keep wondering what this products exact intended uses really are.
Is it supposed to be so revolutionary that it will replace our existing filtration systems? Or, is it intended to be used in conjuction with and aid our filtration? I will state again. No one is going to want a bare glass tank with absolutely no aquascaping. I tend to wonder if it will even be cost effective to run this as primary filtration. I would think that the carbon would need to be change out regularly. If not, seems to me, that it simply serve the purpose of live rock. Why not spend the money on LR for aqua scaping?

Can someone please tell me the exact intended use of this product?

 

[Bill S]

The intended use for the product is to replace your filtration systems:

Rock
Sand
Sump
Fuge
Skimmer

You CAN choose to continue to use any and all of the above. Allegedly.

I've "kept" my rock, sand, sump - it's a brand new tank.

 

[Anonymous]

The bacteria used are all listed in the patent. I did a little digging and they're pretty much all commonly found in soil and decaying vegetable matter. A couple are known to cause food poisoning, again because they live in decayed matter. He doesn't list the ratio of which type, or whether all the species survive long term, or what his special enzyme mix is that's added initially. It does seem odd to me, that bacteria species that live in soil and rotten veggies would thrive in a saltwater fishtank. If this environment is suitable for them, why aren't they there already in great numbers?

I almost think that they don't live that long. They survive for a while, and then the natural bacteria takes over and populates the pounds of carbon.
Only way to prove it would be for someone who's been running the system for a few months to do a culture on some of their carbon. See which bacteria strains are still there.

 

[The_Big_Fish]

Thats a good idea,but I bet that would be prety costly.

 

[Bill S]

Bacteria, ONCE ESTABLISHED, are pretty hardy types. Bacteria commonly found in certain areas do survive - without competition - in what would normally not be common in the real world. That is exactly what happens in our tanks - new system or more traditional system (hey, I remember when they were "new"!).

Culturing bacteria from a carbon filtration system would be difficult AND expensive. It's not that hard to tell WHICH ones are there, what's difficult is to find out WHAT PERCENTAGE they are. There are probably hundreds of different species in there, some just a few, others likely make up very large percentages of the totals.

 

[skylab1]

Is it supposed to be so revolutionary that it will replace our existing filtration systems? Or, is it intended to be used in conjuction with and aid our filtration? I will state again. No one is going to want a bare glass tank with absolutely no aquascaping. I tend to wonder if it will even be cost effective to run this as primary filtration. I would think that the carbon would need to be change out regularly. If not, seems to me, that it simply serve the purpose of live rock. Why not spend the money on LR for aqua scaping?

Can someone please tell me the exact intended use of this product?

The exact intended use of this product is to be your primary and only filtration. With this system LR and LS are use as decor, the right now bacteria will also colonized the LR and LS, but the bulk of the biological is still inside the filter where the carbon is. I have used and setup tank with both LR&LS, also without LR just LS. My own 220 reef only has LR with no LS.

How you want to aquascaping is up to you after all it is your tank. The over all cost and long term maintenace compare to the more traditional system is far less during the lifetime of the tank. The carbon only need to be replace every 4-5 year as long as it is keep clean. The pH rock if you use it, only need to be added every six month or when the pH and CA start to drop. Trace element are maintain by using Sea Labs trace element blox which is far less then other brand of trace element; again this is up to you, you can choose to dose what ever you want and how you want it.

It does seem odd to me, that bacteria species that live in soil and rotten veggies would thrive in a saltwater fishtank. If this environment is suitable for them, why aren't they there already in great numbers?

I almost think that they don't live that long. They survive for a while, and then the natural bacteria takes over and populates the pounds of carbon.

All of snakes data posted tends to look like these are selective species in high concentration which were cultured, and are not commonly present in the reef aquarium. Other wise how could it have been tested in freshwater in a sewer plant, then move on to saltwater with the same bacteria?
By culturing several different species in a dish,and adding his "special" recipe or what ever it is to it.
The same way "Cycle" did it, and many other companies that offer faster cycling bacteria that claim to be different.

There are two different right now bacteria one for salt and the other for fresh water. If you use the salt on a fresh water tank it would only be 10% effective same goes with fresh to salt. They are not the same.

Once the Right Now is establish in the tank it is there to stay, I now back flush all of my torpedo filters every other week. During the backflush process many bacteria are killed, once the system is back online the carbon bed simply recolonized by the bacteria left in a short period of time. They do not die off like other bacteria sold in the market. In this system, natural bacteria will never take over the introduced right now bacteria. The right now bacteria is a natural occuring bacteria, Snake was the lucky person to find it first.

 

[trido]

ALMOST sounds to good to be true. No wonder everyone is so skeptical.
Keep us posted. :wink:

 

[Omni2226]

Everyone keeps concentrating on the bugs (bacteria) looking for the secret...its not the bugs, its what the bugs grow on..the "carbon".

Why "tri" carbon? 3 kinds of carbon (the what they grow on) for three types of bugs. (one eats amonia, one eats nitrites, one eats nitrates)

Ok so maybe Im totaly out of it and what I just typed makes no sense.

Blame it on bad coffee.

 

[Len]

LR, LS, fuges, sumps, and skimmers have more functions then biological filtration, so I think the appropriate marketing statement (true or false) should be "HLD's products are intended to perform all the system's biological filtration" with perhaps the condition that it's purpose is to reduce nitrogenous products in the environment. It definitely can not do everything, and I think any attempt to market it as a pancea only creates more doubt in seasoned hobbyists' minds (new hobbyists may be a different story).

I do not know how any activated carbon can remain adsorbant over the span of 4-5 years. I would like to see data on this.

Once the Right Now is establish in the tank it is there to stay, I now back flush all of my torpedo filters every other week. During the backflush process many bacteria are killed, once the system is back online the carbon bed simply recolonized by the bacteria left in a short period of time. They do not die off like other bacteria sold in the market. In this system, natural bacteria will never take over the introduced right now bacteria. The right now bacteria is a natural occuring bacteria, Snake was the lucky person to find it first.

The carbon, as a bed for bacteria - like the live rock - has probably 1000s of times more surface area as the rock - or that bio balls would have. So, the theory goes, these are the bacteria that do the cleanup work.

I'd also like to see supporting data on these. I fear a lot of such claims have absolutely no scientific validation, and yet HLD's users for whatever reason seem very ready and willing to recite the company's claims as fact.

skylab or bstreep, any more pics? No one has come foward with pictures of a mature, successful tank using this method even though, as Charles stated, this product has been around for years.

 

[Omni2226]

See thats why the list of bacto used has nothing "special". No bugs in there that arent already known to science.

Figure out a way to culture bugs in a special media (the carbon).
The right now stuff is a catalyst to wake up the bugs.
3 "carbons/cultures" of dormant bugs, a catalyst to wake em up and you have instant cycling.

 

[Len]

Question for HLD users: Have you tried the Right Now Bacteria without the TriBase carbon? I'm trying to figure out the relationship between the two, if any.

 

[Omni2226]

MMmmm maybe I have it backwards..the bugs are in the right now and the "carbon" is the special catalyst.

 

[Omni2226]

Has to be a way to keep the bugs dormant or they would have an extremely short shelf life.

Has anyone taken a realy close look at this tri "carbon"?

Or should I stop babbling and go back to my nap now? :?

 

[Bill S]

See if I can answer some of these questions:

The bacteria are shipped dry - in bran flakes, I believe. Bacteria can be kept this way for many, many, many years. They don't die off due to old age, and they reproduce very quickly. Doubling in 20 minutes is very typical. Remember the puzzle about putting a grain of sand on the first chessboard square? If you double the number of grains from one to the next, by the time you get to square 64, you have a mountain a mile high. Bacteria are cultured from just a few organisms in a day to many millions.

READ just about any article on activated carbon and you will find typical surface areas of 300-2000 square MITERS per GRAM. That's about 1.5 million to 20 million square feet per POUND. Reading those numbers - no one can doubt they are HUGE. So, for culturing bacteria to interact/interface with water, you would be hard pressed to come up with a better medium.

I believe that the reason for the tri-carbon is that only tri-carbon provides a carbon source that can be utilized by the bacteria. That's why it gets depleted after a few years.

 

[skylab1]

Question for HLD users: Have you tried the Right Now Bacteria without the TriBase carbon? I'm trying to figure out the relationship between the two, if any.

Yes I have. My own 60 gallon FOWLR tank at home use no carbon at all. I have 7 fish in the same tank about 3 years now, the right now was added about a year ago and that was it. I have two HOT filters in a 30 gallon sump, one has a skimmer build in but it was shut off about 2 years ago, so I've been running it without a skimmer all these time. I havn't test the water for about a year now, no water change in about a year also. All the fish are big and healthy with a breeding pair of percula clown spawning every 3 weeks.

I do have a lot algae growth, just too tired to clean it. I'll try to do a water test tonight, I am very interest to see where the number are with all those algae growing and after a year with no water change.

 

[skylab1]

I believe that the reason for the tri-carbon is that only tri-carbon provides a carbon source that can be utilized by the bacteria. That's why it gets depleted after a few years.

I wonder what would happend if the RN bacteria were to use on a carbon that don't have available carbon source, will the system be as effective? Or it

 

[skylab1]

Has to be a way to keep the bugs dormant or they would have an extremely short shelf life.

Has anyone taken a realy close look at this tri "carbon"?

Or should I stop babbling and go back to my nap now? :?

Oh, you are doing just fine. Please continue. :wink:

 

[trido]

I do not know how any activated carbon can remain adsorbant over the span of 4-5 years. I would like to see data on this.

I have the same feelings here.

I am also trying to figure out the corellation between the two (bacteria and the tri carbon).
I would think that the carbon would simply act as LR after a short time and then potentially leach phosphates and other "bad" things back into the tank. If the rinsing is supposed to clean all of the "bad" things. Why doesnt it simply get washed away by the pump back into the tank when the carbon is full?

 

[skylab1]

I do not know how any activated carbon can remain adsorbant over the span of 4-5 years. I would like to see data on this.

I have the same feelings here.

I don't much about carbon and won't pretent to know. I've email snake hopefully he will logon tonight and help answer questions on the carbon.

 

[trido]

Thanks Skylab