Going barebottom, tips/tricks/advice (clothes not mandatory, ;) )
- Thread starter ctxmonitor
- Start date
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- 11756
Don't forget shallow SB's thats what I'm running only got about .5 inches of sand in there now.
No more company time now! Buckle up we are going for a long ride.
I started off my tank with a not so DSB & discovered over time that it was a magnet for detritus. I used the aragalive fiji pink sand & it helped with the cycle a great deal, but not with the crap buildup over time. The only time I was able to see this was when I stirred the sand & it became clear that things were getting trapped, as opposed to recycling. I did my 5g weekly water changes religiously & all was well for the most part. There were mini algae blooms, first the brown, then the green, then some cyano...etc. Overall nothing major though, since most were patches & did not overtake the entire tank.
Next, as with many stories here, I felt that the small tank had gotten too small & off I went for a 55g. I used the same exact sand from the smaller tank & spread it into my new tank, thinking a shallow sand bed would be the trick. Boy was I wrong! Nightmare from hell!!!!! Now the sand was not deep enough to cover all the unwanteds in there & still present which impeded any siphoning. I saw constant detritus in the sand & it was more of a detritus tank, rather than a reef tank. I could have won TOTM for this I tell you! Levels were off & I had some major cyano problems, along with algae.
I quickly realized this was the wrong route & within 4-5 months or so went for another upgrade, but this time was excited about the BB phenomena. I did my HW & made sure I had enough flow in the tank before it even started & even upgraded my skimmer:
-Tunze 6060 (1600GPH)
-Eheim 1262 retirm (650GPH after 4' height into consideration)
-Seio 820GPH
This is some 28x turnover for me & in a mostly softy/LPS tank with some SPS. I had planned to get another Tunze6060 in the future, but found that just one really trashed the water too violently. It was not until some time that the tunze settled in that it provided more steady & even flow (flow slowed down after time). After only 3-4 weeks of this water really mixing in my tank I found spots of detritus. Increasing the flow any more would mean that many of my softy & LPS would not like the conditions. I quickly concluded that I would have to siphon this stuff out every 2-3 weeks & that is exacly what I did for at least 5-6 times.
I could see clear patches of stuff in certain areas, but with each successive time I saw less & less of it. Something was clearly happening. I did not quite understand it, but was happy with the outcome nonetheless. It was not the flow in the tank that caused this state, for I had the same equipment when I first started. Furthermore, the flow of the tank has diminished since it first started. Now it's not as violent a flow & actually might be on the low side (all depending on position in the tank).
What the hell can it be? Magic? Now I am at the point where I have more fish than I first started, but I see NO buildup as compared to 3 months into my setup. (4 tangs, 2 damsels, 1 GSM, 1 hawk, 1 blenny, & plenty o'corals). I also feed frozen food like there is no tomorrow. I see the fish poop & it falls/breaks up on the floor. Yet it never builds up & I have not had the need to siphon for months. I am prepared to do it, but there is nothing there for me to pickup. The bottom of the floor is clean! I cant find anything behind the rocks, or even behind the tank corners, where there are dead spots.
Recap of tank conditions.
-Same eqiupment as when first started 90g tank
-Less flow rate now, since pumps have settled down & have gotten clogged over time
-More corals & rocks on the floor of tank now. Which in theory should obstruct the flow & allow further trappings of detritus.
-More fish, corals, & frequency of feedings
-No more detritus in main tank & no need to siphon (twist will be revealed tomorrow)
Are bacteria these little mini magicians? I wish I knew exactly what it was, but I can only assume. I had hoped for this state with my previous setups, but it never came to be. I have seen this state with other tanks that had sand in them & was jealous (you bastards!!!). They appear to be clean, self sufficient- with something recycling the debris. I have more to say on this subject & still have not revealed my secret. Actually it's no biggie, but simply a new way that I would approach a BB tank that I think would be more efficient/beneficial & slightly more appealing. Nothing that has not been done before, just a slightly different way of looking at it.
TBC tomorrow (or later on today as it stands).
I started off my tank with a not so DSB & discovered over time that it was a magnet for detritus. I used the aragalive fiji pink sand & it helped with the cycle a great deal, but not with the crap buildup over time. The only time I was able to see this was when I stirred the sand & it became clear that things were getting trapped, as opposed to recycling. I did my 5g weekly water changes religiously & all was well for the most part. There were mini algae blooms, first the brown, then the green, then some cyano...etc. Overall nothing major though, since most were patches & did not overtake the entire tank.
Next, as with many stories here, I felt that the small tank had gotten too small & off I went for a 55g. I used the same exact sand from the smaller tank & spread it into my new tank, thinking a shallow sand bed would be the trick. Boy was I wrong! Nightmare from hell!!!!! Now the sand was not deep enough to cover all the unwanteds in there & still present which impeded any siphoning. I saw constant detritus in the sand & it was more of a detritus tank, rather than a reef tank. I could have won TOTM for this I tell you! Levels were off & I had some major cyano problems, along with algae.
I quickly realized this was the wrong route & within 4-5 months or so went for another upgrade, but this time was excited about the BB phenomena. I did my HW & made sure I had enough flow in the tank before it even started & even upgraded my skimmer:
-Tunze 6060 (1600GPH)
-Eheim 1262 retirm (650GPH after 4' height into consideration)
-Seio 820GPH
This is some 28x turnover for me & in a mostly softy/LPS tank with some SPS. I had planned to get another Tunze6060 in the future, but found that just one really trashed the water too violently. It was not until some time that the tunze settled in that it provided more steady & even flow (flow slowed down after time). After only 3-4 weeks of this water really mixing in my tank I found spots of detritus. Increasing the flow any more would mean that many of my softy & LPS would not like the conditions. I quickly concluded that I would have to siphon this stuff out every 2-3 weeks & that is exacly what I did for at least 5-6 times.
I could see clear patches of stuff in certain areas, but with each successive time I saw less & less of it. Something was clearly happening. I did not quite understand it, but was happy with the outcome nonetheless. It was not the flow in the tank that caused this state, for I had the same equipment when I first started. Furthermore, the flow of the tank has diminished since it first started. Now it's not as violent a flow & actually might be on the low side (all depending on position in the tank).
What the hell can it be? Magic? Now I am at the point where I have more fish than I first started, but I see NO buildup as compared to 3 months into my setup. (4 tangs, 2 damsels, 1 GSM, 1 hawk, 1 blenny, & plenty o'corals). I also feed frozen food like there is no tomorrow. I see the fish poop & it falls/breaks up on the floor. Yet it never builds up & I have not had the need to siphon for months. I am prepared to do it, but there is nothing there for me to pickup. The bottom of the floor is clean! I cant find anything behind the rocks, or even behind the tank corners, where there are dead spots.
Recap of tank conditions.
-Same eqiupment as when first started 90g tank
-Less flow rate now, since pumps have settled down & have gotten clogged over time
-More corals & rocks on the floor of tank now. Which in theory should obstruct the flow & allow further trappings of detritus.
-More fish, corals, & frequency of feedings
-No more detritus in main tank & no need to siphon (twist will be revealed tomorrow)
Are bacteria these little mini magicians? I wish I knew exactly what it was, but I can only assume. I had hoped for this state with my previous setups, but it never came to be. I have seen this state with other tanks that had sand in them & was jealous (you bastards!!!). They appear to be clean, self sufficient- with something recycling the debris. I have more to say on this subject & still have not revealed my secret. Actually it's no biggie, but simply a new way that I would approach a BB tank that I think would be more efficient/beneficial & slightly more appealing. Nothing that has not been done before, just a slightly different way of looking at it.
TBC tomorrow (or later on today as it stands).
Im surprised, thats the reason many BB tanks back in the 70-80's failed, they were not well equipped (skimmer, flow) and were dubbed unstable and the DSB madness began.
The reason it got reborn, so to speak, is because the advent of stronger skimmers, stronger pumps, stream-type flow, and double or triple overflows(getting waste out the water column). I still think its integral, so you saying to slow flow, not upgrade equipment is totally against BB method. I think this might lead someone to believe there is no difference in husbandry between the methods, resulting in the failure and blaming of BB.
My questions are;
Did you cook your rock?time?
Do you say accumulated waste disappears? (although I stress that efficent amounts of anaerobics live in our rocks)
Being that this tank is predominantly LPS/softie, thinks its safe to say SPS would do well in it?
What SPS species do you have? color? growth? pics?
I ask because sometimes what may be something to someone is not to the next guy.
The reason it got reborn, so to speak, is because the advent of stronger skimmers, stronger pumps, stream-type flow, and double or triple overflows(getting waste out the water column). I still think its integral, so you saying to slow flow, not upgrade equipment is totally against BB method. I think this might lead someone to believe there is no difference in husbandry between the methods, resulting in the failure and blaming of BB.
My questions are;
Did you cook your rock?time?
Do you say accumulated waste disappears? (although I stress that efficent amounts of anaerobics live in our rocks)
Being that this tank is predominantly LPS/softie, thinks its safe to say SPS would do well in it?
What SPS species do you have? color? growth? pics?
I ask because sometimes what may be something to someone is not to the next guy.
ctxmonitor
Senior Member
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
That is interesting thing that happen to you.. Now I look even more foward to going BB..hehe.. 
So what skimmer you have on your system and return pump?
Now is only fair show a pic of the your barebottom.. Come on, don't be shy, show it us..
So what skimmer you have on your system and return pump?
Now is only fair show a pic of the your barebottom.. Come on, don't be shy, show it us..
I might be putting more mystery into this than is necessary.:sgrin:
Before I go on let me just mention something about my fuge. I started with a fuge on my smaller tank & migrated it directly over to the upgraded 55g. The fuge did not accommodate my larger 90g tank & so I decided to tear it apart & made some interesting discoveries. It was loaded with so much junk it was unreal. There was plenty of macro & corals in there, more than you can ask for. Yet all this had become a big trap for trouble. Looking back I now fully understood the issues that plagued my 55g tank.
On my 90g tank I did not setup a fuge, but a BB sump instead. Over time my PH was a little low & so I decided to throw in a new bag of aragalive sand to help with the buffering. Guess what is getting stuck there now? It looks very clean from the surface when not disturbed, but when I shake it up you can see the cloudiness & the debris. I had the same buildup when I did not have any sand in the sump, but it was much easier to clean up. Clearly things are getting stirred up by the flow of the tank & reaching the fuge. However, the main tank which should have some signs of the aforementioned is devoid of this.
Question is why is the main tank free of stuff, where there is plenty of room, crevices, rocks...etc for it to hide in/between.
My big secret is just a way I have dreamed up an ideal BB tank to operate. This is simply based upon my observations on my existing system. My biggest worry about a BB tank now is aesthetics, but I have a solution. I am not a big believer of the cutting board layout, since it looks awkward & it can be a trap as well.
Drum roll please...............
Ideal BB tank setup:
1-foggetabout cutting board, faux sand beds...etc.
2-start tank off with not that many rocks, enough to build a back wall only. Go as high as you can if you want.
3-make sure you have a good skimmer & flow
4-Keep the front of tank without any rocks or corals & let the tank develop into this magical state, where some detritus just disappears.
5-once this state is upon you, then go crazy with rocks. Any which way you want, but in particular, cover the floor with rocks so it looks more natural. Cover it in a way not to overlap with the upper back rocks, just in case you needed to get in.
6-Setup a set of PVC pipes in the back of your tank facing downwards that is connected to any high flow pump & place this pump on a daily timer. Pump goes on for 5-15min every 4hrs or 8hrs, however you see fit. You will get a feel for what is needed. This way you will use up less electricity, but have the comfort of having a detritus tornado just in case it's needed. Cover all those pipes on the back wall with a wall of rocks, or some eggcrate & that foam stuff. Alternatively you can use your return line & break it up & point it downwards in the back of your tank.
Take a look at the "no % off on this tank" at FishTown & notice they have a truly BB, with nothing on the bottom. They have a great deal of rocks in there & take notice where their return line is pointing. Straight down in the back of the tank. The tank does not have that BB look & feels more like a reef.
Before I go on let me just mention something about my fuge. I started with a fuge on my smaller tank & migrated it directly over to the upgraded 55g. The fuge did not accommodate my larger 90g tank & so I decided to tear it apart & made some interesting discoveries. It was loaded with so much junk it was unreal. There was plenty of macro & corals in there, more than you can ask for. Yet all this had become a big trap for trouble. Looking back I now fully understood the issues that plagued my 55g tank.
On my 90g tank I did not setup a fuge, but a BB sump instead. Over time my PH was a little low & so I decided to throw in a new bag of aragalive sand to help with the buffering. Guess what is getting stuck there now? It looks very clean from the surface when not disturbed, but when I shake it up you can see the cloudiness & the debris. I had the same buildup when I did not have any sand in the sump, but it was much easier to clean up. Clearly things are getting stirred up by the flow of the tank & reaching the fuge. However, the main tank which should have some signs of the aforementioned is devoid of this.
Question is why is the main tank free of stuff, where there is plenty of room, crevices, rocks...etc for it to hide in/between.
My big secret is just a way I have dreamed up an ideal BB tank to operate. This is simply based upon my observations on my existing system. My biggest worry about a BB tank now is aesthetics, but I have a solution. I am not a big believer of the cutting board layout, since it looks awkward & it can be a trap as well.
Drum roll please...............
Ideal BB tank setup:
1-foggetabout cutting board, faux sand beds...etc.
2-start tank off with not that many rocks, enough to build a back wall only. Go as high as you can if you want.
3-make sure you have a good skimmer & flow
4-Keep the front of tank without any rocks or corals & let the tank develop into this magical state, where some detritus just disappears.
5-once this state is upon you, then go crazy with rocks. Any which way you want, but in particular, cover the floor with rocks so it looks more natural. Cover it in a way not to overlap with the upper back rocks, just in case you needed to get in.
6-Setup a set of PVC pipes in the back of your tank facing downwards that is connected to any high flow pump & place this pump on a daily timer. Pump goes on for 5-15min every 4hrs or 8hrs, however you see fit. You will get a feel for what is needed. This way you will use up less electricity, but have the comfort of having a detritus tornado just in case it's needed. Cover all those pipes on the back wall with a wall of rocks, or some eggcrate & that foam stuff. Alternatively you can use your return line & break it up & point it downwards in the back of your tank.
Take a look at the "no % off on this tank" at FishTown & notice they have a truly BB, with nothing on the bottom. They have a great deal of rocks in there & take notice where their return line is pointing. Straight down in the back of the tank. The tank does not have that BB look & feels more like a reef.
I think you guys would appreciate pics of Bombers (RC) tank. From front and back. Its a 400g roomdivider. The corals in there are absolutely spectacular. Take note of how the rocks are set up. Very few points of the rock are touching the bottom.
I actually don't like Bombers tank. It is too dark and not colorful enough. He should get one of his disciples to donate a tort or a bonsai SPS to his tank, .
I know that he likes it that way, but everybody posts his tank like it is the "be all and end all" of reef tanks. But his tank is unique in terms of husbandry, for example, he does 100% water changes with NSW. Not many people do that.
There are many other BB tanks that look much better.
. I know that he likes it that way, but everybody posts his tank like it is the "be all and end all" of reef tanks. But his tank is unique in terms of husbandry, for example, he does 100% water changes with NSW. Not many people do that.
There are many other BB tanks that look much better.
I would highly recommend if your going bare bottom to use cutting board or marina board on the bottom of the tank. I've had many rocks fall on the bottom while aquascaping and moving frags around, without the marina board I would have been really scared everytime i went to move a rock. Think of it as cheap insurance against the bottom of the tank breaking, cracking, whatever.
that said I do not like the look of bare marina board, which is why I went for a planted anthilia bottom. it worked better that I expected. In less than five months the entire bottom has grown over with anthilia. Guess what I don't like this look either.
So I'm going to do what you just suggested. I'm planning on pulling out most of the anthilia, i have to leave some for my clown to play in, and I'm going to move some of my rocks down to cover the bottom of the tank. On these lower rocks I'm going to attach the rest of my caps which are growing at a really fast rate.
This will leave the only non-sps corals in my tank as, one rock with six very large frilly mushrooms and a frogspawn which I've had from the beginning, I got it from Cristobree/Andy, as a little baby, and now it's grown into a healthy size.
There are also some zoa's attached to one of my rocks now, some yellow polyps contained to one rock, and two nice striped mushrooms in the back of the tank.
Depending how crazy I get I may find other homes foe them as well.
The areas I plan on moving the rock to cover have a very high flow rate, i know this because the anthilia that is growing is being blown over so much it barley is a 1/2" high, as compared to a few other spots where it is extended all the way. I had to do that so the clowns did not get blown across the tank all the time. So given the high flow rate I doubt there will be any accumulation of debris on the new rock bottom.
Instead of the spray bar you set up I have used a few power heads disguised as rocks and placed in the back of the tank corners. they are all hooked up to a tsunami wave maker and are on 40 minute intervals. they are MJ1200's and do a perfect job of keeping the back of the tank clean.
There are still a few spots where some detritus accumulates but I can reach them easily, and when I do water changes I just siphon the crap out from where it is.
Now here is one suggestion I have for a very well set up bare bottom tank.
If possible raise the sump. I know this is a very hard thing to do, it requires much more room, but it will make life so much easier for the tank maintenance. Almost all the junk ends up settling at the bottom of my BB 55 gallon sump, which is only sic inches off the floor. I have tried using filter socks, but I don't always have the time to change them, thus they are not in constant use. So invariably the bottom of the sump acts as a settling chamber for all the detritus. If the sump were raised siphoning the junk out would be no problem, as it is getting it out is a chore. I have thought of planting the anthilia in the sump and letting it use the detritus as food, but then I would have to light the sump and provide some circulation in the return chamber, not something I want to do.
I hope this info helps Tom, and others setting up a new BB tank.
that said I do not like the look of bare marina board, which is why I went for a planted anthilia bottom. it worked better that I expected. In less than five months the entire bottom has grown over with anthilia. Guess what I don't like this look either.
So I'm going to do what you just suggested. I'm planning on pulling out most of the anthilia, i have to leave some for my clown to play in, and I'm going to move some of my rocks down to cover the bottom of the tank. On these lower rocks I'm going to attach the rest of my caps which are growing at a really fast rate.
This will leave the only non-sps corals in my tank as, one rock with six very large frilly mushrooms and a frogspawn which I've had from the beginning, I got it from Cristobree/Andy, as a little baby, and now it's grown into a healthy size.
There are also some zoa's attached to one of my rocks now, some yellow polyps contained to one rock, and two nice striped mushrooms in the back of the tank.
Depending how crazy I get I may find other homes foe them as well.
The areas I plan on moving the rock to cover have a very high flow rate, i know this because the anthilia that is growing is being blown over so much it barley is a 1/2" high, as compared to a few other spots where it is extended all the way. I had to do that so the clowns did not get blown across the tank all the time. So given the high flow rate I doubt there will be any accumulation of debris on the new rock bottom.
Instead of the spray bar you set up I have used a few power heads disguised as rocks and placed in the back of the tank corners. they are all hooked up to a tsunami wave maker and are on 40 minute intervals. they are MJ1200's and do a perfect job of keeping the back of the tank clean.
There are still a few spots where some detritus accumulates but I can reach them easily, and when I do water changes I just siphon the crap out from where it is.
Now here is one suggestion I have for a very well set up bare bottom tank.
If possible raise the sump. I know this is a very hard thing to do, it requires much more room, but it will make life so much easier for the tank maintenance. Almost all the junk ends up settling at the bottom of my BB 55 gallon sump, which is only sic inches off the floor. I have tried using filter socks, but I don't always have the time to change them, thus they are not in constant use. So invariably the bottom of the sump acts as a settling chamber for all the detritus. If the sump were raised siphoning the junk out would be no problem, as it is getting it out is a chore. I have thought of planting the anthilia in the sump and letting it use the detritus as food, but then I would have to light the sump and provide some circulation in the return chamber, not something I want to do.
I hope this info helps Tom, and others setting up a new BB tank.
Bombers tank is a Biotope, all the coral in there comes from the keys where he lives and works. If I lived in the keys or on an island I would do the same thing.
It's the biotope idea that I like, and one of the main reasons I went with a BB tank in the first place. I wanted an all SPS tank. I got distracted when stocking it So now I'm going back to my original plan, the BB just lets you accomplish growing sps very well. trust me if a sand bed worked I would use that. I don't like the look of the BB, but I'm going to work within it's aesthetic limitations and make it look kick ass.
It's the biotope idea that I like, and one of the main reasons I went with a BB tank in the first place. I wanted an all SPS tank. I got distracted when stocking it
So now I'm going back to my original plan, the BB just lets you accomplish growing sps very well. trust me if a sand bed worked I would use that. I don't like the look of the BB, but I'm going to work within it's aesthetic limitations and make it look kick ass.
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