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jhale

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Part 1
Chapter 3
Filtration
Through the Technology Maze to Sparkling Water and Vibrant Aquariums



This chapter goes over all the filtration available for aquariums. From old school to new school Fenner lists filter types and their uses. Included in this chapter is an explanation of the nitrogen cycle which contains one of the most glaring mistakes in an introductory book I?ve seen, more on that later.

Before we jump into the filtration methods I?ll give my preferences and experiences. I prefer using the KISS method for filtration. After for experimenting over 20 years I?ve settled on a modified Berlin method that is popular these days. In my system the mechanical filtration is handled by a good sized efficient skimmer and good flow in the tank. The biological filtration is composed of live rock and a refugium with a deep sand bed and macro algae, and I use ESV carbon and ROWAphos for chemical absorption.

Fenner list?s the following filtrations methods and types.
the comments after each one are my opinions.

Undergravel Filters: Not for use in reef tanks, they become Nitrate traps.

Internal Filters: May be used in quarantine tanks. Keep one running in your sump and you will always have some bacteria ready for a quickly set up QT.

External Power Filters: Great to use for tanks with no sump, they provide a place to keep media such as carbon.

Canister Filters: Not suited for reef tanks. You would have to clean them every week to be safe and effective for reef tank usage. Leave them for fish only tanks.

Pressure Filters
: Leave these in the same pile as undergravel filters.

Diatomaceous Earth: Great for the job it does, clearing up the tank real quick.

Wet Dry and Trickle filters
: If you gut them they can make a decent sump in a pinch.

Live Rock: The foundation of the modern reef tank imo. You may start with all base rock and if you are patient seed the rock to make your own custom Live Rock, thus avoiding a plague of hitchhikers not suited to reef tanks.

Live Sand: I think there are more reef fights started over the use of sand more than any thing else. I?ve said it many times, it?s all personal preference, if you like sand use it, if you do not, don?t. I would stay away from the plenum method used in the original Jaubert method. I like the shallow sand bed I have in my tank. Setting it up with the strong flow I have was tricky but it?s worth it to me.

Refugiums: I use my fuge section to house a DSB. It?s in an area of the sump that I can shut down and take everything out easily. Again it?s personal preference to use one or not. Make sure you do the research if you decide to set one up.

Fluidized Bed filters: Best used in large commercial systems, not so great for reef tanks.

Algal Scrubbers
: I think giant balls of cheato in our fuges have done away with this technology.

Denitrators: don?t be lazy, do a water change and buy a bigger skimmer.

Carbon: I would not run my tank without GAC, it keeps the water clear and lets the light shine all the way to the bottom of the tank.

Ion-exchange media: I use both phosban and rowaphos to negate PO4. they work. If you want to keep SPS successfully then you will most likely need a reactor for them or you will be doing massive water changes.

Polyfilters: These are great to help out in certain situations. I would not run them 24/7. I think they suck out the good with the bad.

Protein Skimmers: Yes, you need the best you can afford. It complements Live Rock in filtering our tank water.

Ozone: I have not used ozone, but I did research it. I ended up concluding it was not for my tank. O3 makes no distinction between good or bad organics, it kills them all. Run carbon, and do some water changes instead. If you need O3 to raise your ORP then something is wrong in your tank. If well maintained it should be fine without ozone.

Ultraviolet: I have never used a UV filter. I agree with Fenner if your system is well set up and cleaned regualary a UV filter will not do that much. QT your fish to prevent parasites from getting in the tank, if anything I would keep a UV on a QT tank.

Now lets look at what Fenner has to say about the Nitrogen Cycle.
He does a great job of explaining the cycle and how it works, until the chart on page 78. After looking at the chart I was left smacking my head and screaming ?that?s were all the bad information is coming from!? I wish for the last time I could write DO NOT CYCLE A TANK WITH LIVESTOCK. The fact that Fenner nor t.h.f have not seen fit to update the chart in this book is a gross injustice to tropical reef fish, in particular damsels, and our hobby.
If for some reason you think it?s quite alright to cycle a tank using fish do me a favor, get a hammer and smash the front of your tank right now. Doing so would be the exact opposite of a conscientious marine aquarist, you do not need livestock to start the cycle in your tank. You can accomplish the same with several products on the market now, even a piece of fresh shrimp will kick start the bacteria cycle. I hate to think how many fish deaths are caused by people taking the advice Fenner gives out in this chapter.
As he points out so well, the water is toxic to fish and inverts while ammonia and nitrite are present. Adding a live fish is the last thing you should do. After the initial cycle is complete you may add some livestock, there will be a slight mini cycle, but no where near as bad as when the tank is first set up. Right at the time when Fenner shows to add ?other plants hardy invertebrates, and fishes? is when you can add your first fish.

I'd like to start this weeks chapter discussion by asking, do you think the publisher, or the author are responsible for correcting outdated information found in a book? We may also discuss filtration methods if you like. And test kits which get mentioned in only a few sentences.
 
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LeslieS

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If for some reason you think it’s quite alright to cycle a tank using fish do me a favor, get a hammer and smash the front of your tank right now. Doing so would be the exact opposite of a conscientious marine aquarist

I read ahead and could not believe that Fenner suggested cycling the tank with fish.
011.gif
This book was first published in 1998 and revised and reprinted in 1999 and 2001. The fact that Fenner gives alternate methods of getting the cycle started tells me that he knew that fish were not the only way to get the cycle started. If you know of an alternate, equally effective method, why even give people the option of a potentially cruel one?

As far as the rest of the chapter - great summary and opinion section JH.

On page 82, Fenner warns that phosphate removers will also strip other trace elements. This is one of those things that I should have paid attention to before I added phosphate remover.
 

jackson6745

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On page 82, Fenner warns that phosphate removers will also strip other trace elements. This is one of those things that I should have paid attention to before I added phosphate remover.


Leslie, was this Fenner's opinion, or did he back up this statement with scientific proof, articles etc.? I will get my hands on this book today.
 

Quang

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Great intro J.
Let me re-read the chapter and post something later tonight.
I also had an issue with the "using fish to cycle" idea--- quite hypocritical.
 
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I think that UV filters have their place. I would not run them on my tank 24/7. HOWEVER if you happen to have an ich outbreak, it's not a bad idea to run one for a little while. Supposedly it will kill some of the free floating parasites. They will also kill some of algae spores, so I ran mine for a couple of weeks after I pruned back the outbreak of bubble algae that came up when I was out of town.

Unfortunately, they can also kill pods and other beneficial bacteria for your tank. So, while I won't run one all the time, it can be useful in select circumstances.
 

drperetz

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...

Isnt UV not used by reefers because they heat up the water? Or just because it is useless most of the time to a healthy, religiously water changed tank?
 

Quang

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Ok,
I have a really big gripe with Fenner on leading hobbyists or to-be hobbyist to believe keeping marine tanks can be made "cheap."
Pg. 65 "You can make it as cheap and simple, or as pricey and complicated, as your heart desires." No you can't.
Filtration can me made simpler, yes, but never just simple.
Same goes for "cheap." If you opt to buy cheaper equipment, you get improper filtration.
Do away with the UG filters, and the skilters IMO. Canister filters are cautioned since they can become nitrate traps---only good use for them IMO is for storing media.
I dig refugiums. They can be used to temporarily house miss-behaving fish/inverts. They also provide a safe haven for micro-inverts to reproduce.
I think running carbon and carbon-like media is a necessity, but thats just my opinion. In all my tanks, I've used Chemi-pure and swear by the product. Skimmers are a must on most systems. Only time where I see skimmers not being absolutely necessary is on the smaller systems (<10g), where consistent and significant water changes are achievable and allow of immediate nitrate reduction.
Well, that's all I have to say about that.
 
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I like in his explanation of the nitrate system, he tells why you shouldn't stock a lot of fish at one time. I see that on the boards a lot lately - people stocking tons of fish in new or recently moved tanks right after the move. The bacteria is not ready for the bioload.

I was very interested in the DSB section as I saw a Jaubert-style DSB in action for the first time just this past weekend. I know everyone says stay away from them, but it seems like if you can manage to make sure that nothing breaks the sandbed (no burrowing critters especially) that it would work very well. Not planning on going DSB, just an observation.
 
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I doubt its that easy to prevent anything from breaking the sand bed. IMO, if you want the result of a DSB without one just stock alot of LR. It has place for bacteria to colonize and if you have enough flow then you wont have a detritus build up problem. Remember, the whole basis to the DSB claim is the increased surface area for colonizing bacteria. We could increas surface area without sand....
 

Paul B

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Although I don't even remember how I cycled my tank I find it interesting that so many people are against cycling with a live fish but have no problem using a dead shrimp, that was at one time alive and since it was not eaten it was killed just to cycle a tank.
I am not saying what method you should employ to cycle a tank but if you are against killing anything then I would imagine you could use flake food to cycle. I have many times used goldfish, live shrimp or minnows to feed carnivores. I don't feel bad about this because I myself eat fish almost every day.
Anyway that was just my observation and I, in no way feel we should purposely torture a living thing for pleasure but it is what it is.
I also agree with not using UG filters in a reef, they would be useless.
Useless unless they are run correctly which is very slow and in reverse as mine has been running since 1972. My nitrates are unmeasurable, but, yes, a regular run UG filter is a disaster.
I do agree with everything else though.
Have a great day.
Paul :bagfish:
 
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This person used two layers of very thin mesh - one about three inches down and one near the bottom of the tank. No critters ever made it past the first mesh, so the anaerobic environement was never disturbed.

Like I said - I'm not saying I'm looking to go DSB. I just think that if it's done right, it can work.


I doubt its that easy to prevent anything from breaking the sand bed. IMO, if you want the result of a DSB without one just stock alot of LR. It has place for bacteria to colonize and if you have enough flow then you wont have a detritus build up problem. Remember, the whole basis to the DSB claim is the increased surface area for colonizing bacteria. We could increas surface area without sand....
 
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Gotya.


This might not have to do with anything but since were talking filtration and system stability i figured ill throw in some 2 cents..
Personally i think that the best way to keeping a stable tank in terms of nitrates and such is by means of vegetation. On earth it seems to me that the animal life and plant life keep eachother in check both physically, metabolically, and chemically.

Physically- by this i mean as a means of physical refuge
Metabolically- one eating the other.. though it tends to be animals who eat the plants
Chemically- CO2/O2 balance. We need O2 and we excrete CO2. Plants need CO2 and they excrete O2.

To me it seems like a perfect balance on land.

However underwater may be a different story. But i think that the establishment of vegetation (i.e. macro/micro -algae) brings ones tank closer to a "natural" equilibrium.
 

jejton

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I read ahead and could not believe that Fenner suggested cycling the tank with fish.
011.gif
This book was first published in 1998 and revised and reprinted in 1999 and 2001. The fact that Fenner gives alternate methods of getting the cycle started tells me that he knew that fish were not the only way to get the cycle started. If you know of an alternate, equally effective method, why even give people the option of a potentially cruel one?

As far as the rest of the chapter - great summary and opinion section JH

I read the book once and dont really recall this but I am really surprised he doesnt write against cycling with live fish because on his website he vehemently opposes such cycling and repeats it over and over when answering questions.
 

jejton

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Ok,
I have a really big gripe with Fenner on leading hobbyists or to-be hobbyist to believe keeping marine tanks can be made "cheap."
Pg. 65 "You can make it as cheap and simple, or as pricey and complicated, as your heart desires." No you can't.
Filtration can me made simpler, yes, but never just simple.
Same goes for "cheap." If you opt to buy cheaper equipment, you get improper filtration.

Well ( and I have no experience with this method whatsoever and have asked for other's opinions on MR about it ) the GARF website promotes their method as being very successful and it is relatively simple and cheap ( compared to most reef tanks ).
 

jejton

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Although I don't even remember how I cycled my tank I find it interesting that so many people are against cycling with a live fish but have no problem using a dead shrimp, that was at one time alive and since it was not eaten it was killed just to cycle a tank.
I am not saying what method you should employ to cycle a tank but if you are against killing anything then I would imagine you could use flake food to cycle. I have many times used goldfish, live shrimp or minnows to feed carnivores. I don't feel bad about this because I myself eat fish almost every day.

The point is that why use a live fish which not only might be killed, but put through a painful process when you can just as easily and more cheaply do it with a piece of shrimp from the freezer?
 

Paul B

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The point is that why use a live fish which not only might be killed, but put through a painful process when you can just as easily and more cheaply do it with a piece of shrimp from the freezer?
user_offline.gif

As I said I don't want to torture anything either but I don't see the point of using a frozen shrimp if you diden't want to kill anything. That shrimp was happily swimming in the Gulf of Mexico minding his business when he was caught and sufficated to death to cycle your tank. You can use a piece of beef but then there's that cow thing.
Anyway you can use some mollies then bring them back to the store. The store will probably use them to feed a moray eel.
Anything that rots can be used including worms. We used to use garden soil but I wouldn't do that because of insecticides.
When I keep frogfish I also feed them fish, livefish, as that is what they eat. Almost all fish eat fish and just about all fish in the sea become food for other fish. A fish in the sea almost never dies of old age, they are eaten. Menhaden or bunker that we call them in NY are caught by the ton to be used as fertilizer and some of the oil in them is used in cosmetics. They are called "trash fish" because you can't eat them.
Don't get me wrong. I do not purposely kill anything and have drove many miles to return a fish or some worms to the sea because I couldn't see it die for no reason but there is a reason to kill fish. We eat them, keep them, and make lipstick from them. If it were not for killing fish, we would not be here. Even Christ killed fish, I don't know if he cycled a tank with them but I know he ate them as I do almost every day.:lol2:
Also remember that all of the animals we keep were kidnapped from the sea and kept captive until they die, usually without spawning first. No matter how well we take care of our animals they are still prisoners so lets not get too crazy.
I think I will order the Halibut tonight.
Have a great day.
Paul
 

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