Vodka dosing

[prattreef]

I started this thread to learn I've been at this for a year in July so I have the basics down evry time I see a thread there is always a few of the experts out there telling u why u r wrong and then they tell u how great there system is and then there is the " just Learn the basics of good reef keeping husbandry" or whatever

I miss read 1 and .1 so I am so happy I posted this thread b4 trying it out
But I'm still gonna give it a go I'll keep u all posted


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And you think experienced hobbyists tell less experienced ones this stuff because of their desire to preserve some secret society of senior reefkeepers? They say these things precisely because of their experience, the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, years of seeing people fail due to moving ahead too quickly and the benefit of years of practice, failure and learning that has made them successful over the long haul.

You or anyone else are free to do as they please, but don't be so quick to dismiss the advice or cautions of those who in fact have put the time in to learn a few basic things about long-term success.

 

[Mattl22]

Hello I wrote my 2nd part of this thread after a few lunchtime cocktails and after reading through it I relized that I came off as an ass ( I miss interepted one of the responses at first glance) sorry !

Not sure what that 2 nd quote from one of the responses was but it wasn't anything I said
Anyway I wanna hear more
Of your personal experinces with vodka doseing thanks


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[NL146]

...Not sure what that 2 nd quote from one of the responses was but it wasn't anything I said...

My mistake too, for some reason I thought I saw your name on the post. That's why I was confused, but as you said it wasn't you who said it.

 

[Mattl22]

Just put first dose in last night everything looks will test later tonight to see if phosphates have dropped


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[batt600]

If your going to follow throw with this you need to add MB7 with the vodka dosing. Vodka helps bacteria growth but dosent control good or bad bacteria. The MB7 will help aid in control of the balance of these bacterias.

 

[Mattl22]

This is why I love this site

What is it?


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[Vic8361]

If you aren't an experienced reef keeper ( I don't know if you are or not) I wouldn't dose anything except Ca. and Alk.. Instead, I'd get in the habit of regular water changes and good old fashioned sound husbandry. Get the basics under your belt --and I mean for more than a year or two ---learn your system and it's inhabitant's needs and then you can start messing around with advanced techniques like carbon dosing and amino supplementation etc.

This is some very sound advise.
Getting to know your system and the animals we keep is a key factor for long term success.
I believe it takes more that a couple of years to really know ones system.

Vic

 

[batt600]

This is why I love this site

What is it?


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Its brightwells Microbacter7 . Thats what mb7 is

 

[Lenny718]

Just put first dose in last night everything looks will test later tonight to see if phosphates have dropped


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Any updates Matt? I'm curious to know how its working for you.

 

[Mattl22]

I stopped vodka dozing it seems the vodka kept disappearing
Also after talking to nymike I decided that I will try to get the phosphates down with a combo of water changes , macro algae , phosban reactor I also just bought a much better skimmer so after getting the skimmer running I'm gonna give it a few weeks and see how it goes if I'm still haveing a po4 problem I'll try the dosing again


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[Lenny718]

Oh ok. I only asked cause I'm doing weekly 20% water changes and I can't seem to get my nitrates below 5ppm. Rather than starve my fish I thought about vodka dosing. I have seen some really nice tanks that had a lot of success with this method so I think I'm going to give it a try.

 

[chinatown]

I stopped vodka dozing it seems the vodka kept disappearing
Also after talking to nymike I decided that I will try to get the phosphates down with a combo of water changes , macro algae , phosban reactor I also just bought a much better skimmer so after getting the skimmer running I'm gonna give it a few weeks and see how it goes if I'm still haveing a po4 problem I'll try the dosing again


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how do you know or see the vodka is disappearing?

 

[AlohaTropics]

Matt,

One of the reasons Vodka dosing can potentially cause problems is because it is a "home remedy" version of commercial carbon dosing methods.

Carbon dosing is basically introducing an organic carbon as a food source to produce bacteria that in conjunction with carbon, also feeds on Phosphates and Nitrogen byproducts. Or you are creating a controlled bacterial bloom. The end result that we do this for is a ULNS (Ultra Low Nutrient System).

Now, the problem with this is, after prolonged dosing, you need to replenish certain elements and food sources for your livestock to survive.

There are many systems that have perfected carbon dosing systems, the most famous being Zeovit. The idea is to replicate the reefs in Nature. Natural reef environments have huge amounts of food in the water but simultaneously has extremely low dissolved nutrients because of the never-ending supply of clean ocean water. We in the hobby have always sought to replicate huge amounts of available food but we keep running into the problem of high dissolved nutrients with it. This is why controlled bacteria systems have come to be.

But vodka dosing alone will strip the water clean, but it will leave a "hole" of nutrients that need to be available for your ecosystem to survive. This is why many people experience awesome results with vodka dosing but after 8 months to a year, systems crash. Another theory is that vodka dosing over time will shift the RedField Ratio in your system. After you reach a certain point, the ratio is so skewed, the system crashes.

I highly recommend going Zeovit if you really want to experience a proven ULNS method with amazing results.

Check out www.zeovit.com and see some of the systems that are showcased there. The dream tank of the quarter thread is amazing. Many of the Zeovit systems there have been running for years so you can judge the long term success.

Or you can always come by my place. I've been running Zeovit for about a year now.


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[AlohaTropics]

I also noticed your post, Matt. I hope you don't think that you dose vodka and your PO4 disappears the next day! Organic Carbon dosing is a way to culture the necessary bacteria that consumes excess PO4 and NO3. This doesn't happen overnight! It takes weeks for the bacteria to properly colonize and the decline is slow. If your PO4 dropped that quickly, you would probably experience severe stress in your corals as well.

If you really wanna go Vodka, there is a MUST read article which is really a guide. Go to the reefkeeping magazine and search the previous issues archives. There is an article about Vodka dosing that will help you out.

I do suggest looking into Zeovit though. With Zeo, you are dosing back the necessary elements and nutrition that your system needs while keeping a ULNS system.

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[adamt]

I would stay away from vodka all together... I say that I "vodka dose" but its really a misnomer. I use brightwell's bio reef fuel at a half dose to prevent diatom blooms. I've been around this hobby for a while 10+ years, worked in aquarium stores, and read just about every book out there, and i still dont know the "right way" to keep a reef tank, I just know what works for me (high nutrient import/export). I add a bunch of nutrients to the water and I make sure that I take a bunch out and my corals grow.

Using real vodka is tricky because the dose is sooo small for most standard sized tanks, and its real easy to screw up. If, after you have exhausted all other options (regular water changes, bio and chemical filtration, etc) your not seeing the results youre looking for then give it a whirl. But if your not experienceing algae blooms and practicing consistent good husbandry then theres really no reason to start vodka dosing.

I think that there is a strong urge for people of all experience levels to pick up a new bottle of w/e at the lfs and dump it in there system. I feel like manufacturers are partly to blame cus they market their products in a way that make them seem like you're doomed without them, but ultimately the responsibility lies with the hobbyist to practice due dilligence and look before they leap. If its not broken, or even if it is, chances are adding a new supplement isnt gonna fix it.

Having said that, if you really wanna do it, read as much as possible and go for it... the worst thing that could happen is your tank crashes and you get to start over, a little wiser from the experience. Plenty of the "experts" on this forum have crashed tanks... how do you think they got to be "experts" lol.

 

[CDANN76]

Not to hijack this thread but,I see a lot of comments talking about the zeo or vodka or mb7..what about using the wm ecobak..any one have experience with this..seems for the most part to be safe...(as of now)...

 

[Mattl22]

Not hijacking at all!! Keep the convo going


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[Mattl22]

What do people think of using a small dose of vodka as a matinance dose never going up or down


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[dotc0m]

Felix great posts, it pretty much sums up what shreds I know in a well delivered manner plus more! Also credit for typing that on your phone! LOL

 

[NYreefNoob]

ok alot of back and forth info and do's and don't, vodka is very simple to use, i did it for almost a year with good results, i also dosed amino's nightly as well, i've done sugar, vinegar and thinking of trying vitimen c, all of the above are carbon source's. any of these as well as zeovit can crash a sustem if not monitored and dosed correctly, only time i have seen people have a crash is from over dosing which cause's a bacterial bloom which sucks all the oxygen out of the system. i had never went above 3ml on my dosage but i had kept low nitrates and phosphates anyways. have a good skimmer is a must for running these types of systems. there are a ton of threads on all of these types of dosing on RC and matt how long has your tank been running ? as many tanks as ive seen that look good with with different types of dosing ive seen as many or more that dont dose and look just as good, good husbandry does the same thing and having equiptment sufficient for you system works as well. keeping your hands out of the tank will make a huge difference also. and you really only want to go towards a ulns if it is a sps dominated tank. the problem i had with dosing over a period of time was my lps started to lose some color and other effect, { i dont spot feed } fyi i read on the vodka and had alot of conversations with people for months before i jumped into it