IS reefs.org aiding the sale of cyanide caught fish?

[Chucker]

spawner, I'd like to ask a question or two of my own...

Why aren't you asking this question on other boards? Some of them have the very same sponsors whose practices you question.

Why didn't you attempt to contact any one of the moderators of the site with this question before posting it publicly?

 

[mkirda]

I'd like to ask a question or two of my own...

Me too. Why have the names suddenly been changed to ***?

Glad I saw these posts before they were edited.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[spawner]

You mis understand me, I only mean to get the lies off the site. I really love these boards they are a great way to get info about the hobby. I figured the best place to start was this section of reefs.org. From the first time I met Mary in MO 99 she was alway truely concerned for the hobby. I plan to start here and move to every other board I can find, one only can do so much in one day I only hope that the amount of money that *** spends on ads won't influence them to much, look like I might be right to be worried about that.

Mary I hope that was not you that delete the names of those very disgraceful companies.


andy

 

[MaryHM]

We have a "no names" policy on this board. With the first post about the email I left it, but as it deteriorated a bit more I discussed the situation with another moderator and decided to *** everything. We have to protect the board. This conversation should definitely continue, just no names please. Not to protect the sponsors, but to protect reefs.org.

 

[dizzy]

Mary,
I'm not so sure that censorship doesn't do more to harm a board like this than it does to "protect" it. It is perfectly acceptable for people to slam the lfs on the general reef keeping section, so what is the big difference here?

 

[Fredfish]

Jen. I am more than happy that my government has been getting itself out of more and more. Don't think I'd go so far as to shoot the tax collector though .

By government I was thinking of this side of the ocean. The most drastic solution will be to ban certain countries. Thats the one that may well happen if the industry dosn't take care of itself. And not out of concern for the fish, but because of political expediency. In terms of bans, its one that will cost our govenrments little in political capital, but will buy a lot of "environmental" good will.

If more species were available this way, I'd be laughing.

But there are not, and that situation won't change quickly because many/most marine fish are extremely difficult and time consuming to breed.

That leaves us with net caught vs cyanide caught for many fish.

If, as several people have pointed out, those net caught fish are "cheaper", why are there not more retailers lining up to buy net caught? I have heard from retailers on this board that net caught are less expensive and more expensive so its hard for me to know which is more accurate.


Fred.

 

[Chucker]

Mary,
I'm not so sure that censorship doesn't do more to harm a board like this than it does to "protect" it. It is perfectly acceptable for people to slam the lfs on the general reef keeping section, so what is the big difference here?

Simply put, legal fees. Do the Novak suits ring a bell? Problems like that would knock boards like this one out of existance by draining their finances.

 

[Anonymous]

The most drastic solution will be to ban certain countries. Thats the one that may well happen if the industry dosn't take care of itself. And not out of concern for the fish, but because of political expediency. In terms of bans, its one that will cost our govenrments little in political capital, but will buy a lot of "environmental" good will.

Don't most of the cream of the crop go to Japan and Europe any way? Will banning really help?

 

[spawner]

Mary,

Well it is impossilbe to change things when you remove the names of the companies. You know that what I have spoken of is the truth, people need to be informed, correct. I have not spoken of anything that is not completely correct only the facts.

Names are important here. I don't think be quite and polite will get anything done, and **** surely won't. The only way to get the boards to lose money is to scream and do so loadly.

Your Adm. is money hungry just like every other adm. they have to watch the budget. It is a shame that we are to late and they have already been bought.

The good doctor called on this one.

andy

 

[Chucker]

So what to do? You ask. Here is what YOU do. You remove *** ads right now today. I will post this on Aqualink and Reefcentral. You start a fund and I will be the first to donate......

If bulletin boards like this one had to survive on donations alone, they would cease to exist. Without sponsorship dollars, you wouldn't even have a forum like this one to submit this thread to.

You sue them, or I will

Quite frankly, I do not have the time, money, or evidence for such an endeavor.

 

[Chucker]

Your Adm. is money hungry just like every other adm. they have to watch the budget. It is a shame that we are to late and they have already been bought.

?

 

[JT]

spawner:

You have failed to offer any evidence to back most of your claims up. I ask you again, why are you only pointing the finger at reefs.org. These same companies you are attacking also sponsor reefcentral.com. You seem to have some hidden, personal, agenda against reefs.org.

- JT

 

[spawner]

JT,

Not you are mis understanding me. The evedience is in their web site and emails their lies not mine. Again, I started here becuase I don't have time to respond to three sites, this board is the only one that has a section "The Industry behind...." this is the correct place for the post. I wanted to get rid of the virus here and move to reefcentral with a victory then aqualink and other boards. Mary has the best group of regulars for this topic. I wanted to get started here and move my way to other place. I have not hidden agenda. I thougth I was loud and clear that I want DR ***** and **** and marine **** live out of these site they hirt the hobby. I don't have any intrested in any online company or store. I use to work in a lFS and sold inverts on a online deal for a while, now I go to school and do research, that is it. I just have been sitting on this info for some time and wanted to bring it up. Again this is the best place for it. I started with the best place. I am trying to show you have you have been influenced by money and corrupted by the good docotors and company.

Chucker, don't worry about sueing just remove them from your site. Don't allow them to come back until they come clean. That is very simple. They don't have a source of income without these sites and mags, if people only could make an informed deision.

Not I can't seem to spell any more.

Chucker I will send you a squirt bottle, and you can got catch the good doctors some fish to sell.

andy

I love this board, not intending to hirt it, just rid it of an infection.

 

[Anonymous]

JT,

Not you are mis understanding me. The evedience is in their web site and emails their lies not mine. Again, I started here becuase I don't have time to respond to three sites, this board is the only one that has a section "The Industry behind...." this is the correct place for the post. I wanted to get rid of the virus here and move to reefcentral with a victory then aqualink and other boards. Mary has the best group of regulars for this topic. I wanted to get started here and move my way to other place. I have not hidden agenda. I thougth I was loud and clear that I want DR ***** and **** and marine **** live out of these site they hirt the hobby. I don't have any intrested in any online company or store. I use to work in a lFS and sold inverts on a online deal for a while, now I go to school and do research, that is it. I just have been sitting on this info for some time and wanted to bring it up. Again this is the best place for it. I started with the best place. I am trying to show you have you have been influenced by money and corrupted by the good docotors and company.

Chucker, don't worry about sueing just remove them from your site. Don't allow them to come back until they come clean. That is very simple. They don't have a source of income without these sites and mags, if people only could make an informed deision.

Not I can't seem to spell any more.

Chucker I will send you a squirt bottle, and you can got catch the good doctors some fish to sell.

andy

I love this board, not intending to hirt it, just rid it of an infection.

If you think the Admin of this board are in it for the money then you are sadly mistaken.

 

[spawner]

Chris,

I am just tring to make a point. If you know something is wrong, is hirting the hobby, but you allow it to keep happening, that is just not right. Believe me I think the boards to a great service to the hobby, but at the same time they have become dependant on dirty money. This money has corrupted (spelling) them to the point that they can't live without. Can't remove them and risk losing the ad space. CAN'T DO THE RIGTH THING.

JT,

A perfect example, reefcentral.com deleted the post about as quickly as I put it up. You see reefs.org is one of the few places where a discussion like this can occur.

All I am asking is for you to really think about my question.

Are BBs aiding in the sale of cyanide caught fish?
Yes they are if they stand by and let ads misled people into think they are buying clean fish. Think that they are buying fish from a group that really cares.

Reefs.org is surely not out on the reef squirting cyanide or pushing its sales, but they are helping out by not taking a stand. That is just as bad.

I am not attacking these boards or the people who spend their time running it, I am merely bring to light a very hard thing to shallow. How easy it is to be a bought person or group. How easy it is to have no control, no ability to do the right thing; why? Because you don't have the guts to step up the plate. You need that money, that is the best drug of all.

Chucker and the rest of the reefs.org adm. You are doing the right thing by allowing this debate, now do the right thing and remove the lies. You want to help the hobby, here is your chance. Other wise stop pretending that you do.

Once again

REMOVE THEM FROM THESE BOARDS, MAKE THEM REFORM



andy

 

[liquid]

Your Adm. is money hungry just like every other adm. they have to watch the budget. It is a shame that we are to late and they have already been bought.

You know something, I'm personally offended at that comment. Reefs.org is a completely non-profit venture. *None* of the operators here get paid a red cent for running this website or board. I have a wife and a son that I'm taking personal time away from to help with this website. Off the top of my head I bet I donate 15-20 hrs of my own personal time each week to moderate this board and #reefs, work on MACO, get speakers for #reefs (like MAC, USCRTF, etc), add new content to the library, etc. We by far have the most diverse platform for educating the marine hobbyist anywhere on the net. And there are ops here that put in even more time than I do. If we were money hungry you can bet your bottom dollar that we'd be doing things *very* differently here. For one thing, this thread would have been killed instantly. However, it's been allowed to remain.

Shane

 

[mkirda]

You know something, I'm personally offended at that comment.

Shane,

Trust me, I understand the quandry all of you are in.
You need money to get and keep the site going, yet accepting money from companies gives (at least) the appearance of influence. To avoid even the appearance of influence, the money stream would have to disappear, meaning that the site would die. You can be da*n sure the average hobbyist will not pay to keep it up and running- they have no clue as to what it takes.

Catch-22, Shane, Catch-22...

And yet, the original poster's complaints can and should be dealt with.
To truly be independent, you need a Wall of Shame or some such, where people can bring dishonest retailers to task publicly. Or you need to screen the ads somehow.

Have the laws in this country been so skewed that a company would sue reefs.org for liable just because they have a forum, even though they were not responsible for its content? If so, we have no first amendment rights anymore...

It is awful that doing the right, moral and just thing is 'illegal'.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[spawner]

Shane,

I have no intention to offend you, I am trying to bring to light the hard facts here. I completely understand that you and everyone else here is here for the better of the hobby. I also know that this is the only place a dialog like this can occur. That is why, JT and Chucker, I posted it hear first. You see I knew that when I posted it on reefcentral.COM that it would be destroyed. It lasted all of about 3-4 hours before they killed it. They didn't take the time to remove the names if that was their problem, JohnL just killed it. Look and look at this for what it is. It is a weak up call. You need to take the high road. You need the money, sure, but at what cost. You might as well be selling drugged fish at a LFS, cause you need the money. The logic of my argument is very clear, very straight forward, very easy to understand. I have no agenda other than to stop large companies from unfairly influence the under informed, under burned, new, young, and the most important hobbyist. YOU are responsible for YOUR actions or inaction. From the moment I bought this board into the knowing, YOU are responsible for every kid that orders drugged fish, that has been lied to by those companies. YOU can change things. YOU must do the right thing here, it might be hard, but you must act. So please don't let me offend you, I only ask that YOU speak up very loudly and SAY that WE will no longer support THEIR LIES, WE will NO LONGER take their dirty money.

Once again, this board is the only one with the courage to take serious issues on. That is why I bring it up here, not to offend you, not to harm this board, but to enlighten, to help rid of all of a virus.

TAKE THE HIGH ROAD.
REMOVE **** and ***** ads from your site (special decoders needed :wink: )


It is not illegal to do the right thing, very illegal, nothing in my posts are anything but true. It is only hard to do the right thing.

andy [/url]

 

[Chucker]

Have the laws in this country been so skewed that a company would sue reefs.org for liable just because they have a forum, even though they were not responsible for its content? If so, we have no first amendment rights anymore...

See my reference above to Robert Novak, Mike.

 

[Chucker]

I don't know how I can express this any more clearly, since it has already been stated above, and glossed over.


The loss of sponsors for this bulletin board would soon result in non-payment of webhosting fees, and the end of its existence on the Internet. Period.


Webhosting is not free, especially for a site this size. Unless you all care to foot the bill, I heartily suggest you take a step back, and propose viable solutions to that problem. So far all I have seen are demands that we remove current sponsors, and waving of hands that donations and such will take care of it. Some of you folks claim you understand the situation, but I don't think anyone has walked 100 yards in our shoes yet, let alone the proverbial mile.