MSI Philippine Net Fund

[Jaime Baquero]

It was not that net collecting didn't work. The reason why collectors went back to cyanide was because they didn't see any difference, economically, between collecting fish with nets or with cyanide. Other major cause were/are the cyanide pushers who go from community to community buying fish from collectors. They buy the fish...but if the collectors buy their cyanide.

Sending the hand netting was a good thing. I hope that every fisher has enough material, but they couldn't do very much without the barrier netting.

I remember you and Peter found out a supplier of barrier netting in Hawaii, hopefully the supply is better today than before.

That picture of Meme Purgatorio is an old one. Is similar to one taken during the Haribon/IMA project. No doubt, Meme (Romulo Purgatorio) is one of the best fish collectors in that region. Steve, you should feel proud to see and know that your knowledge has been transmitted not only to Meme but to many fish collectors around the world.


Jaime

 

[clarionreef]

The reason why collectors went back to cyanide was because they didn't see any difference, economically, between collecting fish with nets or with cyanide.

Especially when they didn't have the right nets to work with. When given green nets and white nets and gill nets that don't work....cyanide is a logical alternative..
However, nets are far cheaper then cyanide by a factor of 35 to 1 over the couse of a year.
And you can catch more fish with nets then with cyanide.
You can fish illegally and not have to pay bribes.
You can work without having to hide the cyanide from your children.
There are strong enough reasons to collect with nets besides wether the buyers pay more or not out of the goodness of their hearts..
Pay more money?
These are cyanide dealers for Christsakes...not reasonable people. We should not be dependant on a change of heart from these kinds of people? Why should we let their mindsets determine wether or not we will be successful?

Sending the hand netting was a good thing. I hope that every fisher has enough material, but they couldn't do very much without the barrier netting

.
Agreed of course. Barrier netting is essential to catch fish and in the case of the reform group, retain any credibility.

I remember you and Peter found out a supplier of barrier netting in Hawaii, hopefully the supply is better today than before.

There are many suppliers of barrier netting and have been for years.
Taiwan, South Korea and finally even China puts out a better quality then before product.

.
Thats MeMe collecting a blue tang against the net wall is from 1983.
The class room setting under the mango tree was from 1993.
Now hes running a facility and divers in Tonga...

No doubt, Meme (Romulo Purgatorio) is one of the best fish collectors in that region. Steve, you should feel proud to see and know that your knowledge has been transmitted not only to Meme but to many fish collectors around the world.

I do...thank you, but we have been a living embarrassment to the big , top heavy groups that resented our ability to train cheaply and quickly...representing a smaller cow to cash in on.

MeMe will be training again full time soon when finished w/ Tonga this year.
Steve.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

The reason why collectors went back to cyanide was because they didn't see any difference, economically, between collecting fish with nets or with cyanide.

Especially when they didn't have the right nets to work with. When given green nets and white nets and gill nets that don't work....cyanide is a logical alternative..
However, nets are far cheaper then cyanide by a factor of 35 to 1 over the couse of a year.
And you can catch more fish with nets then with cyanide.
You can fish illegally and not have to pay bribes.
You can work without having to hide the cyanide from your children.
There are strong enough reasons to collect with nets besides wether the buyers pay more or not out of the goodness of their hearts..
Pay more money?
These are cyanide dealers for Christsakes...not reasonable people. We should not be dependant on a change of heart from these kinds of people? Why should we let their mindsets determine wether or not we will be successful?

Steve,

I agree with the fact that is cheaper, environmentally sound and safer to collect fish with nets, but one aspect that has strong roots and we can not forget is the "relationship" between middlemen/women (cyanide pushers) and the collectors. Collectors are indebted to those cyanide pushers who, in my opinion, are the real culprit of the trade.

Sending the hand netting was a good thing. I hope that every fisher has enough material, but they couldn't do very much without the barrier netting

.
Agreed of course. Barrier netting is essential to catch fish and in the case of the reform group, retain any credibility.

I remember you and Peter found out a supplier of barrier netting in Hawaii, hopefully the supply is better today than before.

There are many suppliers of barrier netting and have been for years.
Taiwan, South Korea and finally even China puts out a better quality then before product.

During IMA-OVI time we were dealing with a net supplier in Japan , it was not the best but was the only supplier we had by then. We had good collectors as Meme who knew how to properly use the nets and how to maintain them for long time. The nets were not cheap no intent, of as you said of "premeditated fraud" , by the way this kind of comments do not help.

Thats MeMe collecting a blue tang against the net wall is from 1983.
The class room setting under the mango tree was from 1993.
Now hes running a facility and divers in Tonga...

No doubt, Meme (Romulo Purgatorio) is one of the best fish collectors in that region. Steve, you should feel proud to see and know that your knowledge has been transmitted not only to Meme but to many fish collectors around the world.

I do...thank you, but we have been a living embarrassment to the big , top heavy groups that resented our ability to train cheaply and quickly...representing a smaller cow to cash in on.

MeMe will be training again full time soon when finished w/ Tonga this year.

The MO industry is in debt with Meme Purgatorio, I think that some kind of recognition must go to him to show appreciation for his sustained efforts to eradicate the use of cyanide from this trade. Meme has trained many fish collectors to do the right thing. Steve, you should lead this initiative.
Steve.

 

[clarionreef]

The MO industry is in debt with Meme Purgatorio, I think that some kind of recognition must go to him to show appreciation for his sustained efforts to eradicate the use of cyanide from this trade. Meme has trained many fish collectors to do the right thing. Steve, you should lead this initiative.

He worked for MAC briefly and quit.
He said "all they did was sit in Manila and go out to dinner."
Some of the MAC staff who delt with him were ashamed of how things were and confided in him.

The treatment of the "low-end field" people was insensitive and high handed. They were even forbidden to speak Tagalog in the office and were not allowed to have photos of family members on their desks.

MeMe resigned soon after and despite repeated calls to return....refused to associate w/ them anymore.
We got him a far better gig in Tonga where he is now very much appreciated.
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

I know Meme very well. He is someone who won't allow anybody to take advantage of him. He is poor, but honest hard working man with ethics and principles. He is a good man. You are lucky having him in your project and he is lucky having people who really appreciate his work.

jaime

 

[N1N2EGT]

Baquero wrote;

It was not that net collecting didn't work. The reason why collectors went back to cyanide was because they didn't see any difference, economically, between collecting fish with nets or with cyanide. Other major cause were/are the cyanide pushers who go from community to community buying fish from collectors. They buy the fish...but if the collectors buy their cyanide. :roll:

I don’t know what you smoke, Mr. Baquero. But I just really can’t imagine where you got this idea of cyanide thing exchanging hands between middlemen and fisher folk. All I can tell you, is I and some other exporters I know give out netting supplies to the fishers who need it. You can say unconditional, because sometimes they don’t even sell their catch to me. Forget about those scamming middlemen. The divers/fishers got smarter now, that they bring their own catch or call us for pick if they have enough catch. You can thank your cell phone technology. Communication is now much better than before. And it's the key here.

 

[N1N2EGT]

Sending the hand netting was a good thing. I hope that every fisher has enough material, but they couldn't do very much without the barrier netting

Pls refer to picture

 

[clarionreef]

Aww...the right handnet materials...1/6th and 1/4 inch mesh.
Great to see!
Finally an idea worth stealing....and spreading!
You guys got a line on barrier netting ?
Steve

 

[N1N2EGT]

It was not that net collecting didn't work. The reason why collectors went back to cyanide was because they didn't see any difference, economically, between collecting fish with nets or with cyanide. Other major cause were/are the cyanide pushers who go from community to community buying fish from collectors. They buy the fish...but if the collectors buy their cyanide.

Sending the hand netting was a good thing. I hope that every fisher has enough material, but they couldn't do very much without the barrier netting.

I remember you and Peter found out a supplier of barrier netting in Hawaii, hopefully the supply is better today than before.

That picture of Meme Purgatorio is an old one. Is similar to one taken during the Haribon/IMA project. No doubt, Meme (Romulo Purgatorio) is one of the best fish collectors in that region. Steve, you should feel proud to see and know that your knowledge has been transmitted not only to Meme but to many fish collectors around the world.

And one last thing, big changes in the way fish are collected will come from within the source(fishers/exporters) and not from some people who scam grant money and tell the local people how fish suppose to be collected, quarantine and shipped. Get it?

“ The proof of the pudding is in the eating”

 

[N1N2EGT]

Aww...the right handnet materials...1/6th and 1/4 inch mesh.
Great to see!
Finally an idea worth stealing....and spreading!
You guys got a line on barrier netting ?
Steve

Mr. Robinson, "Mang Carding" from Calatagan, Batangas knows you very well. But not sure if he's still in your memory bank. Ditto with "Mang Iting" from Polo, Quezon. They were trained under the Haribon program and they were the ones who asked me for these materials. I believed they recycle those lines or improvised from whatever local materials they could get their hands on. The most important thing is we have access to the right nettings. And BTW, it really helps to have cousins and uncles in Honolulu, HI. Hana Paa is located right there in their backyard.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

[

[/quote]I don’t know what you smoke, Mr. Baquero. But I just really can’t imagine where you got this idea of cyanide thing exchanging hands between middlemen and fisher folk. All I can tell you, is I and some other exporters I know give out netting supplies to the fishers who need it. You can say unconditional, because sometimes they don’t even sell their catch to me. Forget about those scamming middlemen. The divers/fishers got smarter now, that they bring their own catch or call us for pick if they have enough catch. You can thank your cell phone technology. Communication is now much better than before. And it's the key here.[/quote]

N1N2EGT,

It wasn't an idea I got. It was what fishers from different communities in your country told, to me and community workers, that were working for Haribon. It was also information I got from exporters in Manila. We [/b]can not deny that cyanide pushers were and are in contact with fish collectors in the Philippines, I really hope that that is not the case today. It would be good to know how cyanide gets in the hands of fish collectors nowdays?

All I am saying is that there are people without scrupulous in your country selling or "trading" cyanide which is being used to collect marine ornamental fish. I applaud the fact that there are exporters, like yourself, doing the right thing; selling clean fish and helping collectors with good nets. Congratulations.

 

[clarionreef]

The most important thing is we have access to the right nettings.

Right you are!
Then at least they will be able to self-train themselves , work and take care of their families while the foreigners fiddle in Manila.
The right netting has always been available...always.

Not once in the past 30 years have Hawaiians collected w/ out nets.
Never has the netting supply they thrive on been a secret.
Never in the past 30 years has the aquaculture [cheap handnetting supply] company been out of stock.

The netting materials have always been known by commercial people and apparently never been known by reform training groups....
Why is that?
I do remember Mang Carding...the great firefish catcher!
& Mang Iting" a new netsman that no longer needed cyanide to catch small clown triggers from Polilio [not Polo], Quezon, Right?

 

[Anonymous]

It was not that net collecting didn't work. The reason why collectors went back to cyanide was because they didn't see any difference, economically, between collecting fish with nets or with cyanide. Other major cause were/are the cyanide pushers who go from community to community buying fish from collectors. They buy the fish...but if the collectors buy their cyanide.

Sending the hand netting was a good thing. I hope that every fisher has enough material, but they couldn't do very much without the barrier netting.

I remember you and Peter found out a supplier of barrier netting in Hawaii, hopefully the supply is better today than before.

That picture of Meme Purgatorio is an old one. Is similar to one taken during the Haribon/IMA project. No doubt, Meme (Romulo Purgatorio) is one of the best fish collectors in that region. Steve, you should feel proud to see and know that your knowledge has been transmitted not only to Meme but to many fish collectors around the world.

And one last thing, big changes in the way fish are collected will come from within the source(fishers/exporters) and not from some people who scam grant money and tell the local people how fish suppose to be collected, quarantine and shipped. Get it?

“ The proof of the pudding is in the eating”

N1N2EGT,
You get the 4 snap Z "you go boy" said in a true southern sister gansta accent!


Who keeps dragging these old threags up anyway? Jaime? And what's all this with the EASTI stuff. Man, keep your nose clean for a year or so and all kinds of stuff happens in here.:?

 

[JT]

Ahh, I see not much has changed while I've been gone. I can still see the love in this forum.

 

[N1N2EGT]

nowhere
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

N1N2EGT wrote:
Quote:
It was not that net collecting didn't work. The reason why collectors went back to cyanide was because they didn't see any difference, economically, between collecting fish with nets or with cyanide. Other major cause were/are the cyanide pushers who go from community to community buying fish from collectors. They buy the fish...but if the collectors buy their cyanide.

Sending the hand netting was a good thing. I hope that every fisher has enough material, but they couldn't do very much without the barrier netting.

I remember you and Peter found out a supplier of barrier netting in Hawaii, hopefully the supply is better today than before.

That picture of Meme Purgatorio is an old one. Is similar to one taken during the Haribon/IMA project. No doubt, Meme (Romulo Purgatorio) is one of the best fish collectors in that region. Steve, you should feel proud to see and know that your knowledge has been transmitted not only to Meme but to many fish collectors around the world.


And one last thing, big changes in the way fish are collected will come from within the source(fishers/exporters) and not from some people who scam grant money and tell the local people how fish suppose to be collected, quarantine and shipped. Get it?

“ The proof of the pudding is in the eating”


N1N2EGT,
You get the 4 snap Z "you go boy" said in a true southern sister gansta accent!
====
you can be a southern'er gangsta for all you want. but to me you're nothing but a hillbilly bob with no clue about the industry nor how to live in the new world of ITech. :lol:

 

[PeterIMA]

It seems strange that this exporter uses southern (US) slang. Perhaps he is not who he claims to be (a Filipino exporter). Perhaps he knows less than he claims about the Philippine export situation.

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, I have a few questions about this thread :

1. Exactly what kind of netting was sent over by the MSI fundraiser? Was it hand netting or barrier netting or both?

2. Did it ever get into the hands of those it was intended to?

3. If the same initiative happened today, five years later, would it be more successful/efficient than it was back then?

Peace,

Chip

 

[N1N2EGT]

It seems strange that this exporter uses southern (US) slang. Perhaps he is not who he claims to be (a Filipino exporter). Perhaps he knows less than he claims about the Philippine export situation.

Peter

You are surprised to find a Pinoy who uses slang words and yet you don't want me to be surprised; to find out that a person like you, knows better than our situation here. I'll give you a heads up, Mrs. Ty is lobbying our politician to bring back our rights to ship seahorses(yes sir..hippocampus sp) without CITES.
I may not know a lot about Philippine export but I can guarantee you that, I know more than you know. Sorry to say that.

 

[N1N2EGT]

Okay, I have a few questions about this thread :

1. Exactly what kind of netting was sent over by the MSI fundraiser? Was it hand netting or barrier netting or both?

2. Did it ever get into the hands of those it was intended to?

3. If the same initiative happened today, five years later, would it be more successful/efficient than it was back then?

Peace,

Chip
_________________


Caught one, killed one and the other one got away...

and as you said, "peace"

 

[Anonymous]

Caught one, killed one and the other one got away...

and as you said, "peace"

Hey, if you have information, how about being less vague and more straightforward? It's not too much to ask...

Peace,

Chip