DOA/Shipping and Handling in the Trade

[dizzy]

Annex 16: Summary of MAC Business Plan
122
Verification of an operational certification system. At least six collection areas and their
corresponding chains of custody are certified, and certified products are moving from reef to
retail.
Meaningful supply development. At least five percent of market volume will be certified. This
translates to the certification of about 15,000 export boxes of marine fish per year, and 250,000+
pieces of coral and other invertebrates. The certified supply will include near-representative
amounts of the twenty top-selling fish, coral and other invertebrate species.
Demonstration of a certified chain of custody. At least seventy percent of the created certified
supply of fish and coral will track through to the retailer level and sell as certified product in, at
minimum, four key countries: the US, UK, Netherlands and Germany.
Demonstration of demand. Consumers will buy the available retail volume.
Environmental concept verification. At least 2,000 boxes of marine fish per year will come from
the Philippines, to prove that the concept can be executed in historically difficult supply
environments. All source reefs will be fully monitored and subject to the reef management laid
out in a specific collection area management plan.
Industry adoption. MAC will have certified the facilities of at least two top US importers and at
least one of the top three importers (by volume) in its other target consumer markets: the UK,
Netherlands and Germany.
Industry and stakeholder support. MAC needs to show willingness within the industry to support
certification. Within the next 18 months, MAC will begin to transition towards becoming
financially independent with a portion of financial support coming from the industry. This will
most likely be through a two percent levy on the C & F value of certified products purchased by
importers, as well as a $100 flat fee for retailers. In addition, industry groups, individual
companies, conservation groups, government/international agencies, and local communities will
formally express support for MAC Certification and will be offered the opportunity to provide
financial support.
3. Supply Development
MAC is focusing on expeditious verification of its certification system. This requires the rapid
development of a meaningful and reliable supply of MAC Certified marine ornamentals.
Fish

 

[clarionreef]

...and yet after 4 years of effort, they have two certified sites where most of the fish get sent to China as the collectors prefer to deal with others then with their own friends at MAC.
And...this is the 'pilot project' used to anchor, prove and test the whole grand scheme.
It has failed by any definition of the word YET the grand plan surges forward!
THE LOSS OF THE COLLECTORS CONFIDENCE AND FIDELITY WAS NOT IN THE LAST QUARTERLY REPORT. NOR WAS THE MAC COMMUNITY RELATIONS MELT-DOWN AT THE NEW SITE IN CAGAYANCILLO WHERE THEY HOPED TO CORNER THE MARKET ON BLUE DAMSELS.
Wow! What a racket...[just jealous]
Steve
PS. How is the hiding and ommission of this not fraudulent? The quarterlies do hide it...are there seperate reports for the funders?

 

[Anonymous]

Lee if you are willing to consider that perhaps MAMTI really did have something to do with hr4928 if would have to be considered arm twisting. They have the only fish in the game. Your not certified and you get zippo. If you look at the MAMTI's own published documents you will see where they plan on getting the airlines to ship only MAC certified fish, and that too forces everthing through them. Sure you don't have to become MAC certified. Not if you are completely self sufficient. I heard that MAC/MAMTI has already persuaded airlines in Holland to only ship MAC certifed fish. Has anyone else heard this?
Mitch

Mitch,

Which is it? Is HR 4928 MAC's baby or not? In one thread you postulate that it is; in another you say that it makes no sense for MAC to have worked on it. Personally, I don't think HR 4928 is MAC's baby. HR 4928 could shut down MAC faster than the Trade. Who's to say that the government would buy into MAC certification?

As for the shipping thing. Maybe the Trade groups should be working on this? What is PIJAC, AMDA, APPMA, PIDA and WWPSA doing about MAMTI? Maybe the Trade groups should be talking with the airlines and various governments about this. Maybe the Trade should create a stakeholders meeting and invite MAC, GEF reps, World Back reps, CCIF reps, etc. . Show the financiers of MAMTI that there is far from unified stakeholder support for things, if that is true. If you want to get action go to the people that supply the money.

-Lee

 

[Anonymous]

...and yet after 4 years of effort, they have two certified sites where most of the fish get sent to China as the collectors prefer to deal with others then with their own friends at MAC.
And...this is the 'pilot project' used to anchor, prove and test the whole grand scheme.
It has failed by any definition of the word YET the grand plan surges forward!
THE LOSS OF THE COLLECTORS CONFIDENCE AND FIDELITY WAS NOT IN THE LAST QUARTERLY REPORT. NOR WAS THE MAC COMMUNITY RELATIONS MELT-DOWN AT THE NEW SITE IN CAGAYANCILLO WHERE THEY HOPED TO CORNER THE MARKET ON BLUE DAMSELS.
Wow! What a racket...[just jealous]
Steve
PS. How is the hiding and ommission of this not fraudulent? The quarterlies do hide it...are there seperate reports for the funders?

Steve,

You must be not telling the right people, or they are not listening to you, or they disagree with you. MAC keeps getting funding. Create a better NGO and go chasing after funding if you can do a better job.

-Lee

 

[dizzy]

Mitch,

Which is it? Is HR 4928 MAC's baby or not? In one thread you postulate that it is; in another you say that it makes no sense for MAC to have worked on it. Personally, I don't think HR 4928 is MAC's baby. HR 4928 could shut down MAC faster than the Trade. Who's to say that the government would buy into MAC certification?

Here is what I think. I think MAC knew about hr4928 and went along with it being introduced to Congress. I think it is to tell the trade that the gun is back to their head and it is locked and loaded. It gives MAC this wonderful opportunity to step in and save us from being shut down. They will be our saviors and we will all get in line to be certified. I believe it will be modified a little, but that it will be passed and it will be: get certified or else. Do I have proof? No. I'm just reading the tea leaves again.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

Lee,
Funders made MAC to run their errands.
This is why they cannot die from lack of results, productivity [ other than paper] or talent.
All they have to do is keep following orders. As the funders are complicit in the no- go's, non starts and lack of receptivity among divers, exporters, importers , retailers and hobbyists they cannot blame MAC alone.
The Case bill had an instant Packard response and support. I have read it already. They were so quick on the draw to support it and knew every little part and rationale for it.
The funding of the TNCs and CCIFs ventures in East Nusa Tenggarra ...Komodo, Flores region is public record. Its central importance in the MAMTI money train initiative is laid out in their own docs.
Steve Case of AOL fame has a product he calls Komodo and the sister Suzzane Case of the TNC has a renter named MAC.
This daisy-chain of the eco-money types that like to travel and play in the water was forged in the isolation of their own limited sub-culture.
They will try and force-fit their notions into the trade wether they are flawed or not. Its their ball and they can do what they like with it.
MAC is merely their errand boy to lay some groundwork for their investment.
The point is, this is not for the trade...its for them...a newly rising ...alright, fellowship of elites that do not slow down for errors no matter how serious. They play with our lives, If they fail...tuff luck.
Not for them, just the fisherman and us dealers.
Steve

 

[MaryHM]

I had an interesting conversation with the lady who bought Rick Oellers store in Maine. Rick (for those of you who don't know), was the guy who claimed to Peter that he was having extremely high mortalities on a very consistent basis- he was also the co-author of that paper Peter wrote. I asked Cyndi what kind of DOA she was experiencing. She stated that she loses a couple of things here or there and every once in a while has a major problem- but not often. I asked her if she experienced anything near 60% DOA. She was incredulous that I would even ask such a thing and said of course not!! I asked her what would happen if she did have 60% DOA on a regular basis. Her response? She'd be out of business. If anyone wants to speak to her personally, pm me and I'll get her contact information for you.

So we have 2 different people who own the same exact store in the same exact location with two completely different DOA tales. Maybe Cyndi just knows how to take care of her livestock better? I don't know. But it is interesting.

 

[naesco]

Yes it is interesting that industry types that are getting out of the industry, like John Tullock don't have nice things to say and people like Cindy "lose a couple of things here and there." Come on!! :roll:

IMO, Mitch if you don't have certification you will be out of business. I am sure they were not part of HR4928 at the beginning but will be there to assist the government.

Have the rest of you finally come to the same conclusion as Mitch.

BILL HR4928 is a fait accompli and that MAC will be an integral part of it.??

 

[Kalkbreath]

I think some people would actually believe the data even if it stated that 100 percent of the imported fish die . I am beginning to think that a few of the participating stores Padded their data to help Franks cause. What self repecting retailer would admit if he was routinely loosing 90% of his imports? Of the 700 dead blue ribbon eels how many came from one or two stores? As for Tullock leaving the hobby .......I wonder what role false data like the 60% nonsense played in his distaste for the industry? What if every single conclusion he had about the industry was based in Peters works? Again I ask what is it that you base your conclusions about this hobby on? Just who is it that we should believe? And how important is it for us to know the truth?

 

[PeterIMA]

Just a couple of points.

First, Rick Oellers never "confessed" to Peter Rubec that he had exceptionally high mortalaties when he owned a LFS. The most he said was that he got much lower mortality on the fish he purchased from Quality Marine than when he purchased fish from wholesalers situated in the Northeast. He was willing to admit that the guys down the road selling cyanide-caught fish were undercutting his prices and were rumoured to have high mortality.

John Tullock admitted that the few times he purchased fish from trans-shippers he had high mortality (about 50%). I doubt that his going out of business had anything to do with any conversation he had with me or with Frank Lallo.

Getting a reliable supply of net-caught fish was one problem he mentioned. The other was that hobbyists by and large did not care whether the fish were net-caught. He could not make a profit on net-caught fish; which were generally more costly than fish sold by his competitors (which presumably were cyanide-caught).


Peter

 

[MaryHM]

First, Rick Oellers never "confessed" to Peter Rubec that he had exceptionally high mortalaties when he owned a LFS. The most he said was that he got much lower mortality on the fish he purchased from Quality Marine than when he purchased fish from wholesalers situated in the Northeast. He was willing to admit that the guys down the road selling cyanide-caught fish were undercutting his prices and were rumoured to have high mortality.

Then who were the "several sources" you referred to earlier in this thread that did confess exceptionally high mortalities? What exactly did Rick do to get co-author recognition in your paper? Rumors of high mortalities from competition do not a scientific theory make.

John Tullock admitted that the few times he purchased fish from trans-shippers he had high mortality (about 50%).

Now this cracks me up. John Tullock, the person so revered for his caring attitude toward fish, transshipped. Transshipping is widely known to be HELL on fish. Dirt cheap prices in exchange for high mortalities. I find it disgusting that people transship fish and I refuse to do it for my customers. You'd think John would know better. Especially into Knoxville, TN which doesn't even have a direct flight from LAX.

Knowing that transshipping is not the way the vast majority of retailers obtain their fish, and knowing that transshipping is a very high mortality endeavor, John still only reported had 50% mortality. So how is it possible that east coast retailers, most of whom DO NOT transship, are having 60% on average? Peter, can you see where it just doesn't make sense?

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I would put the North East and South East "wholesalers" just a hair above transhippers, so it would make sense that stores would report high mortalities from them. Those fish are basically transhipped into Atlanta get very little rest and then shipped back out as fast as possible. At least in LA the fish aren't in the bag quite as long.

 

[kylen]

Wow...just had a shipment returned this morning that was sucked into a black hole FIVE days ago. Only half was dead. I was quite surprised after 126 hrs in the bags.

 

[MaryHM]

The black hole must have been on the west coast of Canada. Apparently there's some magic line through the middle of the continent and all fish who cross to the east DIE DIE DIE!!! :twisted:

 

[kylen]

Actually it got stuck in Toronto, otherwise known as "The Center of the Universe" to us here on the West Coast. :lol:

 

[clarionreef]

ahh, the Atlanta of the far North.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

LOL, ATL of the north.


Sorry to hear that kylen, according to a few authors of papers, thats normally how many die. Actually, according to them, your DOA was a bit low for an average shipment

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, according to them, your DOA was a bit low for an average shipment

ROTFL!!!

I'm laughing way too hard for this early in the morning...

:lol:

Peace,

Chip

 

[kylen]

I've got it figured out...there aren't any blue ribbon eels in the shipment. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

I've got it figured out...there aren't any blue ribbon eels in the shipment. :lol:

Thats got to be it :lol: , and how many purple tangs were on that shipment? :roll: