• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

naesco

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So, fish from the Philippines and Indonesia where the use of cyanide is rampant will only be allowed entry into the US market if the rfish are iscertified net caught.

WHAT IN GODS NAME IS WRONG WITH THAT MARY?

Sounds like a dream come true to me!
 

John_Brandt

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You're welcome to accuse Paul Holthus of lying. I think that's what you are doing. Can you find any real proof?


Anyway, here is the Congressman's Introductory Speech:


SPEECH OF HONORABLE ED CASE OF HAWAII IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - THURSDAY, JULY 22, 2004


• Mr. Speaker, every once in awhile I am deeply grateful for an action I am able to take that is both long overdue and truly needed. That is how I feel now as I introduce the Coral Reef Conservation and Protection Act of 2004.

• My childhood was spent among the rich diversity of the coral reef ecosystems of my native Island of Hawaii. It was a time of budding wonder at what nature had wrought, the living corals and other reef life existing in mutual dependency and sustainability. But just weeks ago, when I returned, as I often do, now with my children, to those same reefs, they're not what they were. Still beautiful, yes; still wondrous. But there is not the same diversity of coral nor the same luster; the fish and other marine life not as plentiful nor diverse; the presence of new, alien species is apparent.

• Of course, there are simply more of us in those marine environments than there were, and so our cumulative impact over my 50 years in those waters has become apparent, even at the level of recreational and subsistence use. But it's more, for these reefs have become a significant business, their coral exoskeletons, their living creators, and the shells and fish that live in and among them valuable collectors' items for the aquariums and curio shops of the world. And the purposeful and accidental introduction of marine invasives in isolated instances over the last decades have magnified into a critical mass of statewide presence and threat.

• In relevant terms, though, we in Hawaii are among the lucky ones, for at least we still have living, albeit threatened, coral reefs, with declining but at least remaining marine life. At least we have marginally protective state laws, and a culture of arguable sustainability.

• But in much of the rest of the marine world, especially throughout the temperate zones of the Pacific and beyond, the world of the coral reef is past endangered and into destroyed, wiped out by a wave of commercial overfishing, overcollecting, dynamiting, cyanide poisoning, and other forms of ecological pillage. In these worlds, laws do not exist to provide even minimum protections or, if they do, they are spurned.

• Some say that that's their business; what do we care if they wreck their marine ecosystems? First, of course, in today's interdependent world, our global environment is everyone's business. But beyond that, we can't turn our backs because we are the chief facilitator; ours is the largest market for the products of this stripping of the world's coral reefs.

• None of this is new: we have known all of this for decades. We have even set out to do something about it. In 1973, we became a party to the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), which sought to clamp down on endangered species trafficking. But although some of our world's coral reef life has been designated as covered under it, the enforcement mechanisms are frankly ineffective.

• More recently, in 1998 President Clinton issued the Coral Reef Protection Executive Order (#13098) establishing the U.S. Coral Reef Task Force. That entity was directed to strengthen our stewardship and conservation of our country's reef ecosystems, and to assess our role in the international coral reef products trade with the goal of taking actions to promote conservation and sustainable use of coral reefs worldwide.


• The Task Force conducted its evaluations, made its reports, and outlined what was needed. That was in large part comprehensive legislation to institute common protective standards for our nation's coral reefs, but, equally important, rules to discourage international coral reef abuse and encourage sustainable practices by allowing imports only of non-endangered products collected by sustainable practices and pursuant to integrated management plans.

• The Coral Reef Conservation and Protection Act of 2004 I gratefully introduce today embodies the principal directions of the Task Force and more. It establishes a comprehensive scheme for the domestic and international protection of our world's coral reef ecosystems. The regime's key ingredients are the disallowal of any domestic taking, transport in interstate commerce, or import of the endangered marine life of our coral reefs, unless that life is collected in non-destructive ways or subject to sustainable management plans or otherwise exempted from coverage by administrative actions.

• Mr. Speaker, we have to start somewhere; our world's coral reefs are crying out for our help. This bill is that start, and I urge its prompt deliberation and passage.

• Mahalo, and aloha!
 

naesco

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Thank you John for posting the speech. It is very touching.

I hope all of you contact your Representatives to ensure a speedy passage of this most deserving piece of legislation.

Imagine, a world without cyanide and the destruction it causes to the reefs and the critters that dwell within them.
 

MaryHM

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You're welcome to accuse Paul Holthus of lying. I think that's what you are doing. Can you find any real proof?

And you're welcome to accuse Paul Holthus of telling the truth. I think that's what you are doing. Can you find any real proof?? I can point to a whole lot of very interesting "coincidences". Any comment on those?
 

John_Brandt

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MaryHM":2pgcgnr5 said:
And you're welcome to accuse Paul Holthus of telling the truth. I think that's what you are doing. Can you find any real proof??

He told me twice that MAC had nothing to do with the writing of this bill. And said that you and others here are creating a false scenario. He agrees there are coincidental circumstances that one might draw premature suppositions from.

But if you think that's untrue the burden of proof would be on you. It's always innocent until proven guilty.
 

MaryHM

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He told you TWICE??? Well then, that changes everything. I thought he had only told you ONCE. But if he's denied it twice, then it must be true. :roll: Actually, I don't have to prove it to anyone. I believe there's something "fishy" here, and that's all that matters to me. I'm just stating my opinions. The information is there and people can make up their own minds. Innocent until proven guilty is for the court system. Not discussion boards.
 
A

Anonymous

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Another interesting snippet.

• Grant funding is required to enable MAC, Reef Check and CCIF to coordinate, train, facilitate certification, and monitor a comprehensive network of sustainable collection operations throughout the Philippines and Indonesia. These operations will generate a critical mass of certified marine ornamental exports that will enable US and European importers and airlines to make MAC Certification a condition of purchase and transportation

Does that sound to anyone else like if your fish aren't certified they won't be able to get on a plane?
 

dizzy

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Sounds like a plan that came straight out of the PETA Handbook of how to shutdown an industry. Just ask the bird retailers.
Mitch
 

MaryHM

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Nice snippet, Glenn. Quite telling if you ask me. Seems tailor made for this new legislation- or this new legislation seems tailor made for that snippet. The poo smell sure is getting stronger....
 
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Anonymous

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Rover":3sta80jv said:
Another interesting snippet.

• Grant funding is required to enable MAC, Reef Check and CCIF to coordinate, train, facilitate certification, and monitor a comprehensive network of sustainable collection operations throughout the Philippines and Indonesia. These operations will generate a critical mass of certified marine ornamental exports that will enable US and European importers and airlines to make MAC Certification a condition of purchase and transportation

Does that sound to anyone else like if your fish aren't certified they won't be able to get on a plane?

Makes me *really* believe that MAC had nothing to do with the creation of this...

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Peace,

Chip
 
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Anonymous

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Although we need to be careful to keep MAMTI and the Bill separate. I'm still unclear on how the two are related. But it is fishy.
 
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Anonymous

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Rover":3pjdgc2d said:
Although we need to be careful to keep MAMTI and the Bill separate. I'm still unclear on how the two are related. But it is fishy.

:)

Beat me to it! - Quoting from MAMTI project goals does not equate with the written goals of the Bill.

And IMO it makes that fishy smell run in both directions..
 

dizzy

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Glenn,
Even if MAC and MAMTI had nothing to do with this bill, which only a total moron would believe, :roll: the GEF Project makes it crystal clear that non-MAC fish will not be entering the marketplace much longer. At least not in the countries that honor CITES and such. Now if they can get FedEx to agree to ship only MAC certified fish we can just call it CHECKMATE.
Mitch

PS That last part would mean only fish and frags from a MAC-certified aquaculture facility could be shipped around the country. Biodiversity royalties will be assured. Great plan.
 
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Anonymous

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I understand. Both are scary proposals. My comments were directed at those who were using quotes from MAMTI as evidence that MAC helped sponsor HR4928. Although I'm not sure how MAMTI will work without legislation to back it up, so the emergence of the two is definitely suspect. It is possible that someone higher up on the MAMTI chain had something to do with the bill, "absolving MAC of any ties with it, to keep any conflicts of interest from popping up. Regardless of who is responsible for the Bill, the end result will be the same.
 

dizzy

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Steve,
They're light years ahead of me and 1000 times more devious. I'm just trying to figure out where all this is leading. You just need to learn how to read the tea leafs my boy.
Mitch
 

clarionreef

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Behold...we regard the statement;
..."to make MAC certification A CONDITION FOR PURCHASE."

Now who would make such an outrageous statement about some alledgedly emeging cartel to control the fish world?

Sounds like a wildeyed conspiracy theorist!
Sounds like some knee-jerk anti MAC folks....
Sounds like some withering, damning analysis from Mary...
Sounds like some bombastic rhetoric from me after three coffees in a row...
ooh...oh my goodness...! Its from them...themselves.
Steve
 

clarionreef

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Guys,
Once the pool starts to fill up with professional "policy wonks, pundits, grant groupies and reformers" of someone elses trade... it will become harder and harder to track where things came from. There are disgruntled employees, cross-pollination from guys who used to work with other groups....and the lifting of others missions, proposals, grants, citations and "studies" from people that never get wet.
From this primordial soup will arise one monstousity after another all trying to CASH IN in on the imagined riches of the aquarium trade.
Since most of these gold-diggers have been in the NGO and public sectors most of their lives, they do not know the difference between gross income and net income and not one in 10 of them could run a donut shop if it were the only one in town.
I already went thru this in Mexico. Its a feeding frenzy of sorts and very competitive. Once you slow down the trade for over inspection,over analysis and an overpopulation of pseudo scientific freeloaders [all trying to make a name for themselves]... it never recovers.
Steve
PS. Once we had so many 'scientific' observers and surveyers in our boat, there was no room for the divers. They had to find another boat.
They still talk about all the pasty white city people [ marine biologists from Mexico City] who threw up in the sea that day...chumming the water and increasing the fish count!
 

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