• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

mkirda

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Kalkbreath":3m4ky8kd said:
Where the **** is the USCRTF on this issue?

Concentrating on what its mandate is. Take a look at that acronym, Kalk.

See the "US"?

That stands for the "United States", see?

I don't think that they have any sort of power regulating food fish imports into HONG KONG. They are not the HKCRTF after all...

Besides, what do you think the USCRTF is, anyway? Did you think that they are more than an advisory body? Did you think they had funding? Did you think that they had the ability to enforce laws? They barely have a budget, fer chrissakes.

For someone who consistently yammers about the trade not needing regulation, your grasping now at the USCRTF as the answer to the problem is just flatout whacked.

Yeah, I'm back.

BTW, was Democrates an obscure student of Plato's?
 

mkirda

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GreshamH":2p6mlal5 said:
Couldn't have said it better myself John. Its in it early stages of development, all is not lost.

While I must say that it seems a little on the 'light' end first, the way I interpret it, if it were passed at this moment and in this form, there is not a single fish or coral that could be imported, period. MAC Certified or not.
The sustainability clause would kill them.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

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Mike,
Forgive them for they know not what they speak.

Sustainability is a buzzword and a soundbite...like saying "We're all for education"...or world peace. Whos against it?

It will anchor any and all dogma from now on, sincere or not...intelligent or not....realistic or not....desireable or not.
Utopian sustainability [ that the US can hardly achieve in most of its fisheries]....or not sustainability...a bad thing, right?

It lends a certain "education" to the user to use it wether he understands it or not. Everyone who can mouth the words are 'environmentalists' now.
Steve
 

spawner

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Can I ask a stupid question?

Ok here goes. ..
(1) The term `coral' means any living or dead specimens, parts or derivatives, or any product containing specimens, parts or derivatives of any species of the phylum Cnidaria, including--

(A) all species of black corals (Antipatharia), stony corals (Scleractinia), soft corals (Alcyonacea), horny corals (Gorgonacea), organ pipe corals (Stolonifera), blue corals (Coenothecalia), anemones (Actiniaria), coralliomorphs (Coralliomorpharia), and zooanthids (Zoanthidea) of the class Anthozoa; and

(B) all species of the fire corals (Milleporina) and lace corals (Stylasterina) of the class Hydrozoa.

I don't really know how this is suppose to read, does the word

including

mean includes as in may include or does it mean only to include thus limiting it to that list.

I read it as includes (as to suggest to the reader that they might want some examples of what a coral is now defined as)

Just want to get my definitions correct. Stupid political writing style.

andy
 

dizzy

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spawner":1mqvvdtk said:
Can I ask a stupid question?

Just want to get my definitions correct. Stupid political writing style.

andy

Andy,
Being from the South I'm a little vocabulary challenged. See if you can find out what demand-side interventions means while you're at it.
Mitch
 

John_Brandt

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There's no spin. It's no secret that MAC is in the same building as The Nature Conservancy. TNC leases space there to MAC. They are on different floors. It is true that Ed Case's sister is the head of TNC Hawaii. But that doesn't necessarily mean that MAC worked with her brother to write the bill. Twice now Paul has told me that they had nothing to do with this bill, nor knew that it was being released.

There's nothing more to say. Accusations that MAC helped write the bill are pure yarn. It's a guess and it's wrong.
 

clarionreef

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John,
:lol: ROLF :lol:
You're kidding, right?
You are well on your way to becoming the head of MAC one day.
There are hundreds of congressman in this country spread out over 50 states. The statistical chances of such a link-up arising from not only the same state...and city...and street address...and building address without MACs knowledge of it are staggering.
Even kids wipe the chocolate off their mouth before denying they ate it to their mothers.
If you start a fire you must remain as distant as possible if you want the job to put it out. I fully understand Pauls strategic and tactical response.
Steve
 

clarionreef

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Nope,
I Googled it.
Steve
PS.
Mitches question about the... " unprecedented strategic combination of supply side and DEMAND SIDE interventions TO MAINSTREAM the transformation of the marine aquarium industry ... sounds a lot like a market plan.
 

clarionreef

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My goodness,
Wasn't this supposed to be just a wild conspiracy theory?
The ROI [return on investment ] will require the fish trade quit and be absorbed by them.
They will need ALL the fish in the entire pipeline.
Steve
 

clarionreef

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Price check please;
That couldn't have been a 22 million dollar price tag attached to this thing...could it?
Will someone please check again?
Rep. Cases budget is 8.5 million and we've yet to hear from the Hawaiian senator that has yet to release his bill.
OK...WE HAVE 30 MILLION NOW, DO I HEAR 35???
I imagine for sell-outs, toadies and traitors... the job opportunities and benefits could be pretty good. Who knows, they might even hire someone from the trade for a few of the lower jobs.
Steve

PS. Quick...look at the "preparation" costs. $660,000.!
 
A

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Interesting snippets

As the lead NGO, the Marine Aquarium Council will coordinate the overall project. All grant funding will run through this organization and will be allocated to the other NGO partners as appropriate.

• The import and retail portion of the industry is willing to pay for the assurance of quality products and sustainability of supply that MAC Certification provides.

Also retailers are never mentioned as stakeholders.
 

spawner

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That means Jellyfish would be considered a "Coral."

Sorry Steve no more upside down "corals" for sale or selling of any thing living on or near by.

Ed might ought to take a few more biology classes before he writes legislation on the subject.

I am going back to grammer school, this semester :)

andy
 

clarionreef

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Wow,
They sure do fib a lot to others when we're not around!
"...the import and retail portion of the industry is willing to pay for the assurance of quality products and sustainability of supply that MAC certification provides."
No where did they prove this, nor establish a supply chain. They lack the talent to achieve what they imagine and have proven it to one village after another!
Lying to funders is normal I guess.
Wow...what a scam this is...keep reading...
Steve
 

MaryHM

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You made it up or heard a false rumor.

Just some observations...

First, the legislation specifically uses the term "certified". Wonder where the good Rep. Case came up with that terminology?? Just pulled it out of his hula skirt?? Doubtful. There's only one "organization" claiming certified product (and if memory serves me correctly, they wanted to make sure that no one else could even use that term). I'll give you three guesses as to what organization. No, it's not AMDA. Huh uh- ain't the IMA. My, oh my, but it's MAC. The same MAC that shares a building with Rep. Case's sister.

Second. What is Paul supposed to do other than deny involvement?? If he ever admitted to being involved, the industry would stomp MAC out like a cigarette butt. Paul is many things- the best of which is a master at fronting his organization and saying/doing anything to maintain it. He's also a master at being in the "paperwork trail" loop of this industry. Including legislation. I have a really hard time believing this got past him, and if it did, then he's not doing his job of maintaining a firm knowledge of everything related to this industry. And if this legislation isn't pertinent, I don't know what is. And I have a hard time believing Rep. Case wrote all of that legislation by his little lonesome without input from someone who has knowledge (or perceived knowledge) about the trade.

Third. MAC has a motive to see legislation like this introduced. Of course it needs to be tweaked to give MAC the maximum benefit, but if legislation is passed stating that only certified animals can be imported, wouldn't that be MAC's dream come true? I mean, their mandate is to "evolve into a self-financed organization, supported by industry contributions assessed as part of the fees companies pay to be certified and use the MAC label to verify that their practices and products are environmentally sound." Companies aren't exactly lining up around Nu'uanu Ave. to get MAC certified. Sounds like a good way to speed up the evolutionary process if you ask me.

Fourth. If it smells like poo and looks like poo, then it's MAC. I'm sorry, but the probability of such a coinidence as MAC sharing a building with Rep. Case's sister, who just happens to be head of The Nature Conservancy, an organization who just happens to have a seat on the MAC BOD, and poor little out of the loop MAC not having a clue as to this legislation is about the same as me getting 100 certified Blue Tangs from the Philippines. I'm sorry, but anyone with half a brain cell has to admit this looks really sketchy.[/quote]
 

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