House Bill HR 4928

[naesco]

]Why would you post something like this when industry has but a few weeks to redeem it self or face certain closure?

Enough with the paranoia already. Judas Priest.

JT is right. Nothing can happen until Congress convenes again, which I have been informed is next year. If passed there will be a one year grace period from that date until doomsday. This all has the feel of a high stakes poker game bluff. I really don't see the threat of no more fish making people want to join MAC who doesn't have any fish either. :? I'm not sure who thunk all this up. If I figure it out y'all will be the first to know. That is if my speculating doesn't upset Lee and John too much. :lol:
Mitch

A poker game and if you lose you lose your business and if you win you win nothing at all. Really smart post Dizzy
Another beautiful comment of typical industry attitude for the Governments files.

 

[dizzy]

We lose either way Wayne. This all sort of reminds me of "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest." We are trying to avoid a death sentence by going to the nuthouse. Paul conjures up memories of Nurse Ratched and Steve reminds me of Randle McMurphy. Perhaps a lobotomy is just what the doctor ordered. Just kidding people. This is serious business, but comic relief is still needed.

 

[Anonymous]

c. a transport policy governing length of time, size and type of bags etc.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ROFL :roll: :roll:

 

[MaryHM]

There's even more comical stuff than that, Gresham. Yes, let's implement a mandatory CDT on every fish imported into the US. Of course, that would mean every fish imported would have to be KILLED UPON ARRIVAL, but hey- Wayne's not one to let a little detail like that get in the way of his backwards logic. I actually started a long post about what was wrong with his "reeform" ideas, but then deleted it. What's the use? He never learns anyway. It's best to just ignore him.

 

[John_Brandt]

Official Press Release for HR 4928...



CASE BILL AIMS TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT CORAL REEF ECOSYSTEMS DOMESTICALLY AND WORLDWIDE


Measure would prohibit import, export and take of threatened coral reef species except under integrated, sustainable, nondestructive management plans


July 26, 2004


Washington, D.C. - Congressman Ed Case (Hawaii, Second District) last Thursday introduced a bill to preserve and protect coral reef ecosystems from private and commercial activities threatening coral and reef fish species in U.S. waters and around the world.

H.R. 4928, the Coral Reef Conservation and Protection Act of 2004, would prohibit collection or interstate commerce of certain coral reef species in waters under U.S. jurisdiction as well as the import of such species except under strict conditions.

"This bill establishes what has been absent for way too long: a comprehensive strategy for the domestic and international protection of our world's coral reef ecosystems, which are the marine equivalent of our tropical rainforests, supporting thousands of fish, invertebrates, algae, plankton, sea grasses and other species," said Case, a member of the U.S. House Oceans Caucus.

"We in Hawaii are among the lucky ones, for at least we still have living, albeit threatened, coral reefs, with declining but at least remaining marine life. We have some, although not much, time to save our coral reefs nationally, but we need a coordinated national commitment and approach to do so.

"In much of the rest of our marine world, however, especially throughout the temperate zone of the Pacific and beyond, the world of the coral reef is past endangered and into destroyed, wiped out by a wave of commercial overfishing, overcollection, dynamiting, cyanide poisoning, and other forms of ecological pillage. In these worlds, laws do not exist to provide even minimum protections or, if they do, they are spurned. Here, because our country is the largest importer of live coral, live rock, marine fish for the aquarium trade, and precious corals for souvenirs and jewelry, we can best protect our international marine environment by banning the import of such products collected in unsustainable and destructive ways.

Case noted that the United States is a party to the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), which sought to clamp down on endangered species trafficking. However, CITES contains weak enforcement mechanisms, said Case. And President Clinton's Coral Reef Protection Executive Order (#13098) established the U.S. Coral Reef Task Force, which recommended comprehensive legislation to protect our domestic and international coral reefs, added Case.

Congressman Ed Case

Case's bill outlines a plan to develop a coordinated national strategy for conservation and sustainable management of coral reef ecosystems with international participation. The bill also proposes enforcement provisions, including penalties, fines or forfeitures of property which would fund a reward system to any person who provides information leading to an arrest or conviction for violations of prohibited activities under the bill.

Following the bill's enactment, the Secretary of the Interior and Secretary of Commerce would:

* work with the Coral Reef Task Force to coordinate conservation and management of coral reef ecosystems; and

* convene, for one year, a public-private advisory group which would develop a national strategy for conservation and the sustainable management of coral reef species and ecosystems.

Certain coral reef activities would be excluded from coverage, including scientifically-based management plans, conservation-based breeding programs, aquaculture and mariculture facilities which are environmentally sensitive, and incidental take and subsistence fishing.

"We have to start somewhere. Our world's coral reefs are crying out for our help. This bill is that start. This is both long overdue and truly needed," said Case.

 

[naesco]

There's even more comical stuff than that, Gresham. Yes, let's implement a mandatory CDT on every fish imported into the US. Of course, that would mean every fish imported would have to be KILLED UPON ARRIVAL, but hey- Wayne's not one to let a little detail like that get in the way of his backwards logic. I actually started a long post about what was wrong with his "reeform" ideas, but then deleted it. What's the use? He never learns anyway. It's best to just ignore him.

You didn't have to delete it Mary because you were wrong than and you are wrong now.

We will be pushing to see passage of the bill together with the support from all the organizations concerned about the destruction of the reefs and the poisoning of its inhabitants.

We will press for an immediate passage of sufficient of the bill to see an immediate ban on the import of fish from the Philippines and Indonesia where the use of cyanide is rampant together with a total ban on live rock.
This will stop destruction and stop the criminals. In the meantime the details you seek on the other aspects of the bill will such time as the other just parts of the bill can be implemented.

Now Mary are you going to continue to do nothing while Rome burns.....

 

[Anonymous]

Here, because our country is the largest importer of live coral, live rock, marine fish for the aquarium trade, and precious corals for souvenirs and jewelry, we can best protect our international marine environment by banning the import of such products collected in unsustainable and destructive ways.

Any one know what our rank is in food fish consumption?

 

[PeterIMA]

Somebody should ask Representative Case why the State of Hawaii is not stopping clorox fishing that has been destroying Hawaiian coral reefs for at least the last 30 years. Why isn't Hawaii DLNR doing something about it?

Peter Rubec

 

[Kalkbreath]

My childhood was spent among the rich diversity of the coral reef ecosystems of my native Island of Hawaii. It was a time of budding wonder at what nature had wrought, the living corals and other reef life existing in mutual dependency and sustainability. But just weeks ago, when I returned, as I often do, now with my children, to those same reefs, they're not what they were. Still beautiful, yes; still wondrous. But there is not the same diversity of coral nor the same luster; the fish and other marine life not as plentiful nor diverse; the presence of new, alien species is apparent.

I would like Mr. Case to explain how this bill would help the reefs in Hawaii? There is really nothing in the bill that would remedy those forces harming the Hawaiian reefs? If this bill cant help the reef in his back yard ..why is he using Hawaiian reefs as an example of how his reefs are declining and that there needs to be measures taken to change this? There is no coral collection taking place in Hawaii! There is no destructive fishing taking place in Hawaii! There is no overcollection of species! Out of the eight hundred fish species in Hawaii, we only collect three fish in any great number. three fish comprise seventy percent of the fish collected. What? we are to believe that Mr. Case noticed that upon his return to the sea , he instantly counted only eight hundred and sixty-two species swimming about? The few fish that are collected in Hawaii are only done so in a very limited area. {about one percent of the States waters} He has failed to explain how regulating the aquarium trade can help the reefs of Hawaii He doesnt even demonstrated that our hobby has inflicted harm anywhere in the world ? I still to this day have never seen a photo of a reef killed off from hobby collectors anywhere in the world , yet people talk about such damage like its been on the front page of the news {have you ever seen a reef denude of corals or a reef tourched white from aquarium collectors collecting Nemos?} Yet CAse seems to be leading his audience to conclude that aquarium collection is to blame for the reef decline he personaly witnessed. I would like Mr. Case to explain why if his bill cant possible help his reef...........why we are to believe that it would help other reefs world wide.

 

[MaryHM]

Now Mary are you going to continue to do nothing while Rome burns.....

When the fire gets to my door, I'll either grab a bucket of water or run. We'll see.

Of course, please don't bother to comment on how ludicrious your idea of implementing a mandatory cyanide test on every fish is. That would be facing the fact that you're completely off base about something and we both know you never admit to that.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Somebody should ask Reprsentative Case why the State of Hawaii is not stopping clorox fishing that has been destroying Hawaiian coral reefs for at least the last 30 years. Why isn't Hawaii DENR doing something about it?

Peter Rubec

Peter , do you think the decline of the Hawaiin reefs is due to hobby Bleach fishing?

 

[Anonymous]

I guess this is the way stuff works though you have one EXTREME and it forces people to move a little closer to the main goal. It's called compromising, and perhaps some good compromising will come of this but I find it very fishy in deed about the whole petsmart/mac bed buddy relationship forming here. Not too mention the funding mac will get from this mamti stuff. very crazy indeed. Compromising is one thing, but down right pulling the wool over everyones eyes is another.

 

[Anonymous]

AS far as I know I thought to test for cyanide tey had to incinerate the fish to detect the cyanide. I don't want any ash fish so I guess that one's shot down. The way customs does it now I beleive is they randomly take fish out of shipments and test them, and I think they only test food fish at the moment and then it's only if they have a hunch.

However I could be totally wrong as I've been out of teh loop for awhile now.

 

[MaryHM]

Dragoon,

There is currently no stateside test for cyanide detection. Of course, that doesn't stop naesco from telling us everyday that we need to implement it or face the wrath of Reeform. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Why would anyone want to pay these guys thousands of dollars to get certified? That bogus dealer/cost benefit study will never come true. There will never be enough fish to go around. We all know it Lee. All expect for you perhaps.

Why the attempt to belittle me? Is there a need to personalize the frustration at this potential legal challenge? I'm aware of MAC's all-to-obvious shortcomings and the arguements that Steve has been advancing about the gross lack of certified fish on the U.S. market.

Here is a question, why is everyone accusing MAC of compicity in the drafting of this legislation? Much of the scope of the legislation is directly related to invertibrates, which, as far as I know, MAC isn't attempting to certify. The only NGO that I can recall working on tracking/certifing invertibrates is CORL. Could this vast conspiracy goes even deeper?

 

[Anonymous]

You so sure about fish not being included Lee? CORL doesn't have a "certification" scheme from my understanding, but maybe Mike King will jump in here.

Show me one friggin MAC fish Lee, just one friggin fish. I buy from a MAC exporter, she hasn't seen jack squat of MAC fish in months. Whats up with that Lee? They have all those area's certified in PI right, I mean, John Brandt went to a graduation ceremony of MAC divers. He even promised them wetsuits, which I'm sure they never received (empty promises lead to divers not trusting NGO's and even back sliding).

 

[Anonymous]

I find it wildly hypocritical that the trade types here are busy "going mental" on an NGO when the problems lie directly before the feet of the trade and a largely uninformed/lied to hobby.

And I find it wildly hypocritical that the organization that has been lulling everyone into a false sense of security (just sit back and relax- MAC will take care of everything) is actually trying to turn this industry into it's own personal "monopoly" (for lack of a better word). I, for one, can "go mental" on anyone I please. Frankly, at the risk of sounding braggy, I think I've earned it. I tried my hardest to educate, to create change. Where did I get?? No where. So don't call me a hypocrite. I tried. I don't feel one piece of guilt about railing on MAC and pointing out these huge fallacies. I can spend my free time however I please at this point. And believe me, now that I'm not running around tooting the industry reform horn, I have a lot more of that free time on my hands. Here's a question Lee. What, in your opinion, should the "trade types" be doing right now in light of this new legislation?

Glad you feel no guilt. Frankly, I wasn't specifically thinking of you when I made my comments. You are the standard bearer of meaningful reform and we'd all be well advised to heed your practical example.

I simply find it nonproductive to redirect the concentration of what should be done specifically regarding this bill. The "trade types" should voice their concerns to their legislators. Beyond that, maybe band together and work on some sort of comprehensive meaningful reform so that legislation like this doesn't continue to pop up?

 

[Anonymous]

And how do you all know we are not? With reeform so srogly agaisnt the "Industry types", they're frankly scared to post I mean, that wayne is out to get them

 

[Anonymous]

You so sure about fish not being included Lee? CORL doesn't have a "certification" scheme from my understanding, but maybe Mike King will jump in here.

Show me one friggin MAC fish Lee, just one friggin fish. I buy from a MAC exporter, she hasn't seen jack squat of MAC fish in months. Whats up with that Lee? They have all those area's certified in PI right, I mean, John Brandt went to a graduation ceremony of MAC divers. He even promised them wetsuits, which I'm sure they never received (empty promises lead to divers not trusting NGO's and even back sliding). That same exporter is trying her damndest to aquire netting for her divers, I though MAC had the netting worked out? They can't supply, or even offer a supply, of netting to them? Thats ok, we, as private business, will yet again supply her with the proper netting she is requesting.

Didn't say that fish weren't included.

Also, I firmly believe that the trade should have been supplying netting/other supplies all along as needed; not relegating the responsibility to any NGO. Any importer that suspected that a regions collectors didn't have appropriate tools to legally collect livestock should have either made steps to provide the missing tools or taken their buisness elsewhere. But I digress...

 

[Anonymous]

When you train divers, you also have the responsability to get them the proper tools. With out the proper tools, how can one be trained in the first place? I too feel Industry should be the one suppling the tools, and doing the training as well. If you train divers, don't supply them with the tools, are you helping or hurting? I say hurting as it'll, cause backsliding like no one business. As say saying goes 1st time same on you, 2nd time, shame on me. They won't let it get to "shame on them".