Is it really fair to wholesale and retail livestock???

[dizzy]

When I was getting ready to set up a Rhinopias tank I decided to do some research into their care. I was reading something by Scott Michael on Coralrealm.com or somewhere, and as it turns out people will spend thousands of dollars on a trip to a dive location where they have been sited, just for the chance to photograph them in the wild. It is extremely hard to make the case that collecting these for people to kill in the home aquarium is a better use than leaving them in the wild as a draw for the dive tourist industry. I want a sustainable industry. I do not want to be a part of wiping species from the planet. Having said that I fail to see the harm to nature if common and abundant species achieve less than Utopial DOA/DAA success in the home aquarium. My hope is that common sense wins in the long run. Can the Wayne Ryan's of the world ever be educated? Nothing I have read in the industry forum in the past couple of years leads me to believe they can.

 

[coralfarmin]

Im not anti brown/pale acro here...actualy I'd rather buy alot of them cheaper cause after a few months under the 1000 watt 20k they usally all color up to 1st grade... but I'll wait till they are on special and just order them from who has the most
But I infact am planning to set a monthly cherry pick budjet if my business all works out as planned..this does intale flying out to 104st myself...
which ever wholesaler treats me the best WILL see me regular

kalk there are cites exempt importers mariculterests

 

[Kalkbreath]

kalk there are cites exempt importers mariculterests

Not sure what your thinking ..... There are countries that write there own permits which are not a part of CITES like Tonga , but the inspection process is still the same when the corals land on U.S. soil,. The paper work muct match the shipment . I think Solomons are the same ........its managed not by CITES but the Austrailian fisheries. Maybe Dave could fill us in about Solomons.
Many sps do color up under the correct lighting .......but one needs to consider the simple fact that 99 percent of wild Acros are pretty much brown in the wild and dont color up reguardless of exposure.

 

[coralfarmin]

www.tropicalmarineimports.com/humillis.html this is a frag from a pale green humillis after a couple months..now screaming green..I have tons of stag and other frags as well that have shown this same coloring trait under the 1000 watters..granted purples and blues color better under 10 or 65 k and turn more green under 20k but in my experiance almost all acros morph under the 1000 watt 20k..not all but most

there are infact cites exempt importers ...since they contacted me through pm I would rather not mention them here ...but they are legit...and I will consider them..if youd like to know more about them pm me

 

[dizzy]

I'm not sure if anyone else here caught Dana Riddle's lecture at this past MACNA, but he made it sound like his research had showed that there was absolutely no advantage to using 1000 watt metal halides over coral tanks. Did anyone else attend and remember what his conclusions were?
Mitch

 

[JennM]

So what happens to the corals after you colour them up under ridiculous amounts of light, and the hobbyist takes them home and sticks them under VHO, PC or 175 or 250 watt Halides? Guess they'll be brown again in short order... but then you'll have made your buck.

IMO keep them under something that is realistic and sell them honestly. Strongest bulbs I use is 400 watts and I can probably only think of 2 or 3 hobbyists with 400 watters over their tanks. The rest don't have unlimited money to spend on an electric bill.

JMHO.

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

dont tell my corals that..please also note they are on hydroponic light movers as well so the duration is still 12 hrs

 

[dizzy]

If they are coloring up under intense lighting it is probably to protect themselves from too much UV radiation. Something akin to putting on sun blocker. Jenn is right very few people use 1000 watt lights on their home system. Even less would be compelled to do so after listening to Dana's talk.
Mitch

 

[coralfarmin]

Jenn if you think im in this for a buck you are mistaken..I love growing coral..I have 1000 watters for my personal system...
the same thing will happen to them as what happens to them when someone buys them from someone who kept them under 400 watt 65k iwasakis then puts them under compacts..they will eventualy loss their color..the 400 watt 65k is very close in intensity imo to a 20k 1000 watt on a mover..but I've not used any instruments to prove this

 

[coralfarmin]

all I can say is dana better do alot of research first...there are alot of varibles to consider....I've never had the growth under anything like I have under 1000 watters...what about growing under sunlight.....this is sooooo much more intense...FOR GROWTH
lets get real people..
Do you even grow coral?????

 

[JennM]

Jenn if you think im in this for a buck you are mistaken..I love growing coral

Please clarify for me then... is this a HOBBY for you, or a JOB?

I love what I do, make no mistake, but it's my JOB... since I'm not independently wealthy and I haven't won the lotto (yet!), I need to make a buck to survive. This is how I choose to do it.

So is this a sideline, hobby or your life's work? If it's your life's work and you don't want or need to make a buck, then you're a better person than I am... I'm an honest dealer, and I have bills to pay.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Jenn

 

[JennM]

all I can say is dana better do alot of research first...there are alot of varibles to consider....I've never had the growth under anything like I have under 1000 watters...what about growing under sunlight.....this is sooooo much more intense...FOR GROWTH
lets get real people..
Do you even grow coral?????

:roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:

Do you even know who Dana Riddle is?

Careful, your inexperience is showing

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

jenn my income from coral propagation is $0

 

[JennM]

Mitch, I didn't get to MACNA... and I haven't seen Dana since he dropped in a year ago Thanksgiving (He was in town to visit his parents, and he and Sara stopped by for a chat). I'm curious about his lecture tho... any other gems to share?

Last year when I saw him he'd just begun some research on Dendronepthya. I joked with him, told him as soon as he can figure out how to feed them, I'll actually sell them

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

DANA DID NOT CONSIDER THE USE OF A MOVER IN THE 1000 watt asumption
yes I know who dana is...though I do not worship dana...i do admire

 

[JennM]

jenn my income from coral propagation is $0

Trick answer? Currently your coral income is zero, but why go to all trouble to set up expensive greenhouses and lights, make contacts and fly out west to cherry pick, if you don't intend to have an income?

Or are you having a free frag giveaway? 8O

Hell of a hobby on that scale...

Jenn

 

[JennM]

DANA DID NOT CONSIDER THE USE OF A MOVER IN THE 1000 watt asumption
yes I know who dana is...though I do not worship dana...i do admire

Ouch so much shouting...

I can't speak for Dana but perhaps he did not consider a mover necessary?

Worship? Hardly. He's a friend, whose work I have read, and whose opinions and findings I value.

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

you are relentless...this is all part of my grand scheme... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am planning a business :wink:
failing to plan is planning to fail
right

 

[coralfarmin]

sorry my shift button was stuck
do you even know what a mover is?????
the intensity per day is not set at a point
a 1000 watter is totaly efficent over lets say a 4x8ft x 12"vat

 

[JennM]

Yes, I would agree that failing to plan is planning to fail. I've seen people do the latter.

I'm not relentless, just trying to make sense of it all. So currently your income is $0, but that isn't the long term plan. Your stating that your income is nil was just a red herring to avoid answering my question, so I'll repeat it:

So what happens to the corals after you colour them up under ridiculous amounts of light, and the hobbyist takes them home and sticks them under VHO, PC or 175 or 250 watt Halides? Guess they'll be brown again in short order... but then you'll have made your buck.

I don't know diddly about greenhouses or hydroponics, but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd think that a mover is a device to move the point source of the light from place to place, perhaps to simulate different times of day and/or positions of the sun. Am I close?

You also stated that:

the 400 watt 65k is very close in intensity imo to a 20k 1000 watt on a mover..but I've not used any instruments to prove this

I don't mean to sound picky but you disqualified your own statement by saying you haven't done the work to prove it. The statement does not make sense to me, but I'm not a lighting expert, so I'll defer to others here whose knowledge is greater than mine.

My point was simple: Why force unnatural colours in a coral in the first place? Secondly, selling corals on the basis of their unusual/rare (there's that word again) colour, which is artificially induced, and with knowledge that placing them under less intense light will change them, seems somewhat misleading at best to me. Might as well save the power bill and dye them.

As always, JMHO and trying to gain some more insight...

Jenn