Is it really fair to wholesale and retail livestock???

[dizzy]

By mover do you mean something like the rail light system? I actually sold one to Dana back in 97 or so when he was at Wildlife or what ever it was that Dr. Mark Clark called his aquaculture facility there in Cleveland, TN. If memory serves Dana's research didn't show much need for these gadgets either. I don't know if Dana's research is flawed or not but he does appear to have the necessary training and equipment to do the job. He also lectures and then fields questions from a knowledgable and sometimes critical audience. To be honest I'm usually fatigued at MACNAs and a lot of the stuff he is explaining with the charts and graphs go right over my head. Jenn I believe he is going to be publishing his finding in one of the online magazines, probably AA.
Mitch

 

[JennM]

"Aquatic Wildlife" in Cleveland TN.

Later moved to Chattanooga after it was sold once or twice, and it was known as Captive Bred Corals before it shut down about 18 months or so ago.

Thanks Mitch, I'll keep my eyes open for that article.

Jenn

 

[dizzy]

I do remember that people in Japan or somewhere were making corals appear to be different colors by using different colored lights over their tanks. Something like you can do to your photos of corals on your computer by playing with the tint. FYI Iseen some pretty amazing SPS tanks that were just using VHO lighting.
Mitch

 

[coralfarmin]

ok then jenn let me try to humor you.....

I have been keeping coral under 1000 watters since coralife come out with the 1000 watt 20 k

why does DR. Mac keep his coral under 20k????color.

Why do I keep mine under 20k????color.

Why do I use 1000 watters.

simple.cost.imo

I can set up and maintain a 1000 watt hydro mover set up cheaper IMO than several less intense 400 watt 20k electronics.

no I've not done tests to prove this...but no one else has either.
this is what I prefer.
the startrac mover I use can be set to pause at each end from 0-30 sec and the speed can be set from fast to a crawl .lets see someone factor in all them varibles

whats the diff in someone coloring under several 400 watt 20k at a set point and the above mentioned.
you tell me

 

[dizzy]

You might get just as good of results by moving one 400 watt light and you would have an energy savings every month.

 

[JennM]

Well I'm just a lowly retailer... not nearly so sophisticated as all that.

I mainly buy wholesale and sell retail but I also trade in frags and frag a few here and there. I keep them under MH, but I keep them under lighting that is more likely to be similar to that of the hobbyists who will buy them - this way there is less chance of a client being disgruntled if the coral changes colour dramatically, 3 months after it leaves my shop.

Even with my simple technique, stuff I get grows and keeps good colour, and tends to keep it after it goes home, because I educate people and encourage them to supply their livestock with appropriate lighting. In just over 4 years in the trade, I have yet to sell a 1000 watt light fixture. The few that splurge on halides usually go with 175s or 250s depending on the depth of their tank, and what they wish to keep.

It is from*that* point of view that I ask my questions, which seem to continue to go unanswered.

As I mentioned before, and as Mitch understood me, I fail to see the value in stressing a coral to shift its physiology to achieve an unnatural colour. Sure it's pretty... but it's likely temporary.

Last month I attended a lecture by Dr. Bruce Carlson and in his discussion he explained that Zooxanthellae are brown, and colours other than brown in corals, are actually an absence of Zooxanthellae. Bleaching, in fact, in extreme cases. While it's possible for some specimens to maintain a smaller amount of Zooxanthellae and for those specimens it's "normal" for them to show colour, IMO it's probably rather stressful to push the limits of that.

FWIW..

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

if the color is just assumed by you temp...how do you explain the growth

here is another varible.. height

and another ..duration

and anther...age

if you think this is my first rodeo you are mistaken

 

[coralfarmin]

so are you aginst all the fast growth from a greenhouse as well??????
I will infact include in my acclimation instructions the lighting they were kept under as well as on my website
so people WILL know before they buy what the corals potintal is

no secerts here...just hardcore coralfarmin

btw the wild stock for resale will be kept under shade ..just like newly aquired tropical foliage

people can write all the papers they want and make all the assumptions they want but
the prove is in the pudding

 

[JennM]

Fast growth and unusual (or abnormal) colour are two different issues.

With all the talk in this and other threads about "cherries", it implied that you were after rare or unsual stuff. That's usually about colour. If you are growing out colonies for fragging, the shape of the piece is largely irrelevant, although size might be a factor, I suppose.

Personally I'm not a fan of forcing any living thing to behave or grow at a rate different from what is naturalor normal under normal environmental conditions for that particular specimen. Happens all the time though, corals, farm animals... calves for veal, geese for foie gras...and etc.

We've shifted the focus again apparently, from colour to growth rate...

I give up - you win. I'm going to bed.

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

I just dont get you...I need sleep as well

my closing thoughts are

the growth and color are both possitivly corilated together

my desire to cerry pick is only related to my passion and desire to be prepared for stuff like hr 4928 in the future...then you can give me a call

and I will help you out if I can

The core income of my business plan consists mainly on reselling wild stock that has not been kept longer than the normal quarntine time frame

why you try to portray my efforts in a bad light..heck I dont have a clue

 

[JennM]

I'm not trying to portray your efforts in a bad light... just not a 1000 watt light.

I am simply trying (unsuccessfully) to understand your rationale.

Sleep well.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Wait, your saying a 65000 (65k(k)) kelvin 400w MH is about equal to a 20000 kelvin 1000 w MH? I think you forgot a decimal point, a 6.5kk 400w maybe Not to hard to test, the meter is only a few hundred dollars. Anyone using so much juice would be wise to buy a Quantum meter, like an Apogee.

 

[Anonymous]

my desire to cerry pick is only related to my passion and desire to be prepared for stuff like hr 4928 in the future...then you can give me a call

So your kinda a Noah and the coral farm is your Arc?
They came two by two till the vate was filled with corals. They floated aimlessly till they were acclimated. They waited for Ed Case. The continued to wait for Ed Case. Not sure how it ends, but I belive they're still waiting for Ed Case Watch out for gold mines, they turn into PITS really quick.

To use so much juice, is to kill the reefs (electicity = green house gas emmissions) so your protecting it while your killing it. I like your green house idea minus the 1000w MH's.

 

[coralfarmin]

ya..I'd quess a 400 watt iwasaki at a set point is about as intense or more ...per day as a 1000 watt 20 k on a mover

your comment about noah I dont get..no arc here I just want coral stock not for a gold mine just for internal passion..I dont know who ed case is even..call me stupid..I dont remember him in the old testament :lol:

If you are coloring up greenhouse grown frags in a 4x8ftx12"vat with a 1000 watt 20k ...how is that differant far as energy use than 3-4 400 watters

still gotta burn as much oil at the power plant..imo..unless ya got nuclear..we have oil powerd plants

no enery crisis here like ca

3x70=210 per 3 400 watts
1x130=130 per 1000 watts
far as replacing bulbs gos and inital set up its cheaper imo
and you still dont get the efficancy of the 1000 watter imo with 3 400s
why do you think this is the choice set up for indoor hydroponic produce growers
what about the greenhouse gas produced by production of several more ballasts and bulbs
we could go on and on
but I do agree the greenhouse is the best choice
try to market all BROWN coral though

 

[Kalkbreath]

Oh this is gonna hurt ........but I actually agree with coralfarmin.
I like 1000 watt bulbs Check out my new post topic to learm more ..

 

[Anonymous]

You can quote Ed's work, but you don't know who the Senator from Hawaii whom indroduced the "Case" bill aka HR 4928 is?

The energy crisis is every where. We all contribute to the depletion of the ozone layer. It doesn't matter your juice is cheaper, it still does the same damage as ours ;

Hydroponic specialists like the 600w HPS typically, or at least the ones I know They claim better efficancy from the newer 600 e-ballasts that are on the hydro market. One thing to thank Canada for I guess. They're just as divided on this issue as us though, they just fight over 600 vs 1000.

 

[coralfarmin]

I have actualy posted in threads about eds bill..never really payed attention to who he was though...I did not quote his work..I just did not know who he was really...I did read the hr 4928 bill and all the paranoia here about it...mabey it was thenoah comment that threw me off....your pretty clever..
I was joking about him not being mentioned in the old testament though
I knew he had somthing to do will somthing here

1000 watt hps is the best

actualy I did not know there was a 600 watt electronic hps either

 

[treeman]

I have tried to find the rational in all this... But I have gotten a headache.

I have to agree with you Jenn. I don't see the need or the use for the 1000 watt MH. If you are growing corals to sell to hobbiests then it should be closer to what they are using.

 

[mkirda]

PS Do you think we should put JB's picture on a milk carton?

Yes.

 

[dizzy]

Missing Person
Dark hair
Thirty something
Average height
Probably in need of haircut
May have been abducted by a cult or an alien space ship.

Please contact the proper authorities if you have any knowledge of his whereabouts.