A
Anonymous
Guest
Yes, please explain!
Consumer owned local fish stores
- Thread starter smit1260
- Start date
- Status
Yes, Commerade Naesco, please explain how that's "better" for the reefs?
I don't suppose it occurred to you that a good chunk of the stuff being sold on eBay and other venues - the "cherry" stuff, is illegally collected? Wonder where all those Ricordea florida really come from?
And how would a co-operative have profits to share, versus a bona-fide private sector LFS, if they are going to have lower prices? If sole ownership is the criterion for making money, then I missed something in Business 101 because I haven't got profits to share with myself, or anyone else.
Some of you are under the mistaken inpression that we're only in it to skin the customer. Couldn't be farther from the truth.
Did it ever occur to you also that the so-called "bad" LFS with high mortality and sickly looking fish, charge more because they have to? They've got to pay for all their dead - the rent is due whether the tanks are full of livestock or if they are in the middle of an ich outbreak. That money for fixed costs has to come from someplace.
I've never met a LFS owner or owner of any other small business that sets his/her prices strictly to screw the customer. We all have bills to pay - prices are set based on cost of good sold, fixed costs that the proceeds of the sales have to pay for, salaries, insurance, utilities and all that other stuff. "Profit" is a relative term. The gross profit on the sale of any given item, and the "net profit" after all the bills are paid are two totally different things.
What makes anybody think a co-operative LFS could do it any more cheaply than a privately owned one, or even a chain with more buying power? Will it run strictly on volunteer labour? Will somebody donate the space? I doubt it. Nobody rides for free.
Jenn
I don't suppose it occurred to you that a good chunk of the stuff being sold on eBay and other venues - the "cherry" stuff, is illegally collected? Wonder where all those Ricordea florida really come from?
And how would a co-operative have profits to share, versus a bona-fide private sector LFS, if they are going to have lower prices? If sole ownership is the criterion for making money, then I missed something in Business 101 because I haven't got profits to share with myself, or anyone else.
Some of you are under the mistaken inpression that we're only in it to skin the customer. Couldn't be farther from the truth.
Did it ever occur to you also that the so-called "bad" LFS with high mortality and sickly looking fish, charge more because they have to? They've got to pay for all their dead - the rent is due whether the tanks are full of livestock or if they are in the middle of an ich outbreak. That money for fixed costs has to come from someplace.
I've never met a LFS owner or owner of any other small business that sets his/her prices strictly to screw the customer. We all have bills to pay - prices are set based on cost of good sold, fixed costs that the proceeds of the sales have to pay for, salaries, insurance, utilities and all that other stuff. "Profit" is a relative term. The gross profit on the sale of any given item, and the "net profit" after all the bills are paid are two totally different things.
What makes anybody think a co-operative LFS could do it any more cheaply than a privately owned one, or even a chain with more buying power? Will it run strictly on volunteer labour? Will somebody donate the space? I doubt it. Nobody rides for free.
Jenn
Ding ding ding! we have a winner! LOL!
In fairness though I think he was reffering to reefers who frag and propogate thier coral to trade and sell. Not ebay sellers who suddenly come up with corals of all types in mother colony sizes.
Wild collecting is not going to stop.
NOT ONE OF US here can honestly say we have ALL got propogated coral only in our tanks. It just inst possible unless you went and fragged it your self from the guys coral or watched him / her do it.
As long as we step up regulations and enforce them wild collecting should not be as bad as it has been. Boating accidents and deiselspills are causing more damage to the reefs than colectors are at the present time actualy.
Alot of the time people get the idea that somthing is just plain illegal to take from the ocean when it isnt as well. For instance, the only corals you cannot harvest from florida waters are true sea fans, stoney corals ( with the exception of porites) and brain coral.
The rest are considered fair game as long as not more than one square inch is taken of live rock per coral., and you do not remove the mother colony entirely.
I know that seems leniant but it realy isnt. Iknow severalpeople in FLorida who dive and supply LFS across the country, they can tell you 1st hand what it costs, what they have to do beable todive and get them, and ho wmany times a day the rangers, or coast gaurd pass by thier boats watching.
The REAL threat around florida waters is ilegal the taking of stoney coras and yuma ricordia from the Dominican republic!
Theyare being absolutly raped by unworthy bottom feeding divers.
THAT my friend is where those "legal hatian" mother colonies of florida ricordia come from. Not in Florida but Cuba.
In fairness though I think he was reffering to reefers who frag and propogate thier coral to trade and sell. Not ebay sellers who suddenly come up with corals of all types in mother colony sizes.
Wild collecting is not going to stop.
NOT ONE OF US here can honestly say we have ALL got propogated coral only in our tanks. It just inst possible unless you went and fragged it your self from the guys coral or watched him / her do it.
As long as we step up regulations and enforce them wild collecting should not be as bad as it has been. Boating accidents and deiselspills are causing more damage to the reefs than colectors are at the present time actualy.
Alot of the time people get the idea that somthing is just plain illegal to take from the ocean when it isnt as well. For instance, the only corals you cannot harvest from florida waters are true sea fans, stoney corals ( with the exception of porites) and brain coral.
The rest are considered fair game as long as not more than one square inch is taken of live rock per coral., and you do not remove the mother colony entirely.
I know that seems leniant but it realy isnt. Iknow severalpeople in FLorida who dive and supply LFS across the country, they can tell you 1st hand what it costs, what they have to do beable todive and get them, and ho wmany times a day the rangers, or coast gaurd pass by thier boats watching.
The REAL threat around florida waters is ilegal the taking of stoney coras and yuma ricordia from the Dominican republic!
Theyare being absolutly raped by unworthy bottom feeding divers.
THAT my friend is where those "legal hatian" mother colonies of florida ricordia come from. Not in Florida but Cuba.
Man, you sure like to call people names :roll:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... invert.htm
http://www.tropicalresources.net/phpBB2 ... s_yuma.php
http://www.ricordea.org/mushroom_coral/ ... a_yuma.htm
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=2367
But hey, don't take my word for it. Pick up a book, like "Reef Creature Indentification - Florida Caribbean Bahamas" by Paul Humann or any other reconized Caribbean and read it.
Ricordea florida comes from the Atlantic bro, not Yuma! Go crawl back into your hole now please!
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... invert.htm
http://www.tropicalresources.net/phpBB2 ... s_yuma.php
http://www.ricordea.org/mushroom_coral/ ... a_yuma.htm
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=2367
But hey, don't take my word for it. Pick up a book, like "Reef Creature Indentification - Florida Caribbean Bahamas" by Paul Humann or any other reconized Caribbean and read it.
Ricordea florida comes from the Atlantic bro, not Yuma! Go crawl back into your hole now please!
Your RIGHT already LOL!!
I was sitting here staring at my tank full of boulbous hairy rhodactis and FLorida rics,and my yuma, when I typed that.
When I posted the part about the YUmas I have no Idea what I was thinking. Probably because I was staring at my rhodactis and thinking wow they are as nice as my yuma or somthing? I ment rhodactis. When I posted "your insane", it was because all that was going through my head was "is he saying the caribbean isnt a part of the atlanitc?" LOL!!
AND the realy sad part is that I posted that yumas are in the atlantic TWICE!!! AAYE!!!! I NEED SLEEP!!!!
I apologize.
But I still didnt call you a name
.
I was sitting here staring at my tank full of boulbous hairy rhodactis and FLorida rics,and my yuma, when I typed that.
When I posted the part about the YUmas I have no Idea what I was thinking. Probably because I was staring at my rhodactis and thinking wow they are as nice as my yuma or somthing? I ment rhodactis. When I posted "your insane", it was because all that was going through my head was "is he saying the caribbean isnt a part of the atlanitc?" LOL!!
AND the realy sad part is that I posted that yumas are in the atlantic TWICE!!! AAYE!!!! I NEED SLEEP!!!!
I apologize.
But I still didnt call you a name
.I was out on a shopping spree when all this came up. Fragmaster, I understand you may see your comment as inoffensive and if we could see your face we would know you were joking around, but...
This is a text based board and so all we get is your written word and none of the real subleties of actual spoken communication. Please be aware of this in the future and realise that what seems like kidding around to the poster can be interpreted otherwise by the reader.
Thx-Jim
This is a text based board and so all we get is your written word and none of the real subleties of actual spoken communication. Please be aware of this in the future and realise that what seems like kidding around to the poster can be interpreted otherwise by the reader.
Thx-Jim
Every time I go to the LFS I see huge chunks of live rock with a variety of coral (sometimes one species). Inevitablly, if the rape of the coral reefs continued, there would be nothing with the resultant decline in fish, inverts etc.
By fragging process, millions of tonnes of rock and coral are saved.
This should make common sense to every reefer concerned about the daily rape of the reefs.
By fragging process, millions of tonnes of rock and coral are saved.
This should make common sense to every reefer concerned about the daily rape of the reefs.
JennM":p418ydog said:
Jenn
My earlier posts is self explanatory.
Ebay should not be dealing with live creatures at all.
Those who break the law should be charged, convicted and sentenced to gaol.
Private enterprise should never fear co-operatives. There should be peaceful co-existance in the marketplace.
"Every time I go to the LFS I see huge chunks of live rock with a variety of coral (sometimes one species). Inevitablly, if the rape of the coral reefs continued, there would be nothing with the resultant decline in fish, inverts etc.
By fragging process, millions of tonnes of rock and coral are saved. "
However, if you look at it from a local perspective, the sea is the only real resource many of the island nations have. They WILL find a way to generate a revenue stream from that resource. Remove exports of livestock from the equation and you're left with the curio and building trades. Both of which are far more destructive to the reef, and far less locally profitable than any managed livestock export trade. I agree w/ Steve R. here that the best answer is a closely monitored and sustainably quota'd system. This is the real way to save the reefs, make their health a local priority.-Jim
By fragging process, millions of tonnes of rock and coral are saved. "
However, if you look at it from a local perspective, the sea is the only real resource many of the island nations have. They WILL find a way to generate a revenue stream from that resource. Remove exports of livestock from the equation and you're left with the curio and building trades. Both of which are far more destructive to the reef, and far less locally profitable than any managed livestock export trade. I agree w/ Steve R. here that the best answer is a closely monitored and sustainably quota'd system. This is the real way to save the reefs, make their health a local priority.-Jim
- Status
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
