A
Anonymous
Guest
According to their recent newsletter I see that MAC has a new product.
A
Anonymous
Guest
What happens when you have sponge die off? Is it no longer MAC rock? How long does MAC rock sit in the box 
IIRC petty much all live rock and everything else coming out of Fiji is MAC certified these days. Of course once it enters the custody of the pagan dealers it loses its certification. Funny thing is it can still have MAC certified written all over the box. :lol: Especially if it came from Walt.
Rumor has it that the IMA is trying to convince the Fijian government that the certified liverock is not sustainable. Has anyone else heard about this recent development? Weigh in Peter.
Mitch
Rumor has it that the IMA is trying to convince the Fijian government that the certified liverock is not sustainable. Has anyone else heard about this recent development? Weigh in Peter.
Mitch
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Certified rock...as oposed to the other kind??
The attempt to force complicity with the MACs label in order to get export permits was tried in several places....
They lost staff over this and a scandal ensued in Manila and they used Congressman Ed Case to front it in the US...[ a failure] and I know all too well what was attempted in Mexico.
Only the Fiji fisheries dept. fell for it to their dis-credit and this is because of the heavy investment there by companies seeking the MAC brand of eco-oderant.
Instead of evolving a good product to then earn a label, they sought to force themselves on dealers already creating good products.
They are little more then a label selling protection racket when they engage in these coercive tactics.
There is nothing simpler to produce then live rock...
Getting Fiji shippers to stick on the label there is their crowning achievment after this decade of effort.
It is hard to imagine less bang for the buck then this re-running Keystone Cops sit-com called MAC.
Steve
The attempt to force complicity with the MACs label in order to get export permits was tried in several places....
They lost staff over this and a scandal ensued in Manila and they used Congressman Ed Case to front it in the US...[ a failure] and I know all too well what was attempted in Mexico.
Only the Fiji fisheries dept. fell for it to their dis-credit and this is because of the heavy investment there by companies seeking the MAC brand of eco-oderant.
Instead of evolving a good product to then earn a label, they sought to force themselves on dealers already creating good products.
They are little more then a label selling protection racket when they engage in these coercive tactics.
There is nothing simpler to produce then live rock...
Getting Fiji shippers to stick on the label there is their crowning achievment after this decade of effort.
It is hard to imagine less bang for the buck then this re-running Keystone Cops sit-com called MAC.
Steve
When i witnessed the rock operation a few years back the intent from the big cheese was to make every piece uniform in shape and weight so that it could easily be sold with a bar code to big box shops such as petco. The big cheese then proceeded to tell me that if we could move quantity we would be in good favor. After reviewing the cookie cutter rock, i couldnt bring myself to do it....the stuff just did not look acceptable. One shape(outta of two) they were pumping was about a foot long, rectangular in shape, with a softball size hole right in the middle of it. Imagine the hobbyist using 10 or 15 peices of this in their tank....how real would that look? :lol:
As far as the sustainable aspect goes, it really is just pulverized reef rock that they also ship out dry to Dave. So, it makes more sense just to by the dry rock or stick with the original product. Either way, it is no less sustainable then all the material harvested to build houses,roads, etc.
Wasnt there a paper done on this not to long ago?
As far as the sustainable aspect goes, it really is just pulverized reef rock that they also ship out dry to Dave. So, it makes more sense just to by the dry rock or stick with the original product. Either way, it is no less sustainable then all the material harvested to build houses,roads, etc.
Wasnt there a paper done on this not to long ago?
I received and tanked a box of that rock that was donated to a conference last year. I too asked about the hole in each piece. I was told that it's so they can attach a tag with a bar code so the big box chain stores can charge by the piece (sm, med, lg etc) without the fuss and bother of weighing, etc.
I thought the rock was interesting looking, I've seen a video presentation on how it's made and how it's cultured. I really don't have a problem with this, but the whole hole-for-a-bar-code kind of left a sour taste in my mouth, but bidnezz is bidnezz I guess.
Don't know how I'd like to use the stuff to aquascape - I like the randomness of natural live rock.
Jenn
I thought the rock was interesting looking, I've seen a video presentation on how it's made and how it's cultured. I really don't have a problem with this, but the whole hole-for-a-bar-code kind of left a sour taste in my mouth, but bidnezz is bidnezz I guess.
Don't know how I'd like to use the stuff to aquascape - I like the randomness of natural live rock.
Jenn
I would not mind if the hole was real tiny so that a thin wire could be put through, or if it was an area where a hole almost existed, and a small piece was knocked out and it looked natural. A lot of rocks already have holes in them.
It would save wasted time of reweighing the rock several times before someone buys it.
But a big unnatural hole just drilled in every rock would not be appealing.
Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]
It would save wasted time of reweighing the rock several times before someone buys it.
But a big unnatural hole just drilled in every rock would not be appealing.
Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]
I believe that Steven Why who used to be with the IMA (South Pacific Coordinator) did a study on live rock harvest and concluded it was unsustainable. He recommended to the government of Fiji that the collection and export of natural live rock should be banned. I have not seen the report. Steven Why now has his own NGO and is based in the Marshal Islands.
As far as farming artificial live rock, I am in favor of it as an alternative to the harvest of natural live rock. I discussed this in my paper concerning Territorial Use Rights in Fisheries (TURFS). I assume that the hole in the center of the artificial rock is so the aquarist can mount cultured coral frags (alternative to wild coral harvest). This is also discussed in my paper. The idea of creating artificial live rock with holes and adding coral plugs to the holes (after the rock is placed in an aquarium) originated with Joe and Sally Haedlee.
Rubec, P.J. V.R. Pratt, and F. Cruz. 2001. Territorial use rights in fisheries to manage areas for farming coral reef fish and invertebrates for the aquarium trade. Aquarium Sciences and Conservation 3: 119-134.
As far as farming artificial live rock, I am in favor of it as an alternative to the harvest of natural live rock. I discussed this in my paper concerning Territorial Use Rights in Fisheries (TURFS). I assume that the hole in the center of the artificial rock is so the aquarist can mount cultured coral frags (alternative to wild coral harvest). This is also discussed in my paper. The idea of creating artificial live rock with holes and adding coral plugs to the holes (after the rock is placed in an aquarium) originated with Joe and Sally Haedlee.
Rubec, P.J. V.R. Pratt, and F. Cruz. 2001. Territorial use rights in fisheries to manage areas for farming coral reef fish and invertebrates for the aquarium trade. Aquarium Sciences and Conservation 3: 119-134.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Joe and Sally Haedlee?
Thats Leroy and SallyJo Headlee
They were the earlier rock stars.
They gave away for free their notions at seminars a decade ago.
Some of the people who attended those seminars took credit for being the pioneers.
Kinda like MAC and the "reform thing."
Steve
Thats Leroy and SallyJo Headlee
They were the earlier rock stars.
They gave away for free their notions at seminars a decade ago.
Some of the people who attended those seminars took credit for being the pioneers.
Kinda like MAC and the "reform thing."
Steve
i don't think live rock needs to either be banned or replaced with 'astro-rock'
it's collection needs to be managed more properly-but it is indeed a renewable resource
and i don't care who claims what:
artificial and 'aquacultured' rock will never be as good in biodiversity and water quality processing as fully natural live rock-i'll never use it, never sell it, and never recommend it to anyone-period
it's collection needs to be managed more properly-but it is indeed a renewable resource
and i don't care who claims what:
artificial and 'aquacultured' rock will never be as good in biodiversity and water quality processing as fully natural live rock-i'll never use it, never sell it, and never recommend it to anyone-period
vitz":2dajkm1z said:
I applaud MAC for this achievement.
Vitz you should care!! And I pray you will soon have no choice
It is that attitude of not caring which has doomed industry.
Vitz the US industry has no right to continue mining live rock from the reefs any longer. It is prohibited in the US why should you continue to support this destruction in third world countries.
Live Rock is not sustainable.
Naesco,
Thanks so much for your involvement in this thread. If you could do the readers of this thread a favor it would be greatly appreciated.
Please explain to those who are following this thread what your exact involvement is in the trade of marine ornamentals, past and present. This will help them further understand not only your opinions, but what drives them.
Many thanks in advance for your reply!
Thanks so much for your involvement in this thread. If you could do the readers of this thread a favor it would be greatly appreciated.
Please explain to those who are following this thread what your exact involvement is in the trade of marine ornamentals, past and present. This will help them further understand not only your opinions, but what drives them.
Many thanks in advance for your reply!
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
