A
Anonymous
Guest
:lol:
I love Caterham
Esp the avatar....
I love Caterham
Esp the avatar....
naesco":bknaqziv said:
Hey Wayne - MAC didn't create manufactured rock - Walt Smith did. Walt is a smart businessman. The MAC stamp came later, and honestly - if gullible people think it's somehow "better" than it was just because it has a stamp, so be it - another smart business decision for Walt.
Now, Wayne, why don't you answer Caterham's question - he's been asking it ever so patiently, time after time, in thread after thread, for month after month but somehow you seem to miss it each time.
Jenn
Well here we go round and round again, but I'll post it again for the benefit of any newbies. Remember this is Fiji we are talking about. Where do y'all think the cement they use to make the live rock comes from? In truth the manufactured live rock is prolly much less sustainable than wild collected. In order to make the cement used in the live rock they burn live rock to get the lime out. They cut down rain forest to get the wood, to fuel the fire, to burn the live rock, to get the lime out, to make the fake live rock. It might take 10# of harvested and dried live rock to make 1# of fake rock. All this so they can make a product that Petco can sell in mass. The people like naesco that support this all out assalt on nature should truly be ashamed of themselves. :evil:
I don't disagree with you, Mitch... only relaying what Walt showed in his presentation at SWU last year.
He stated that there are piles of dead "live rock" on roadsides... where people have excavated for various reasons - building docks etc. The rock has already been displaced, for whatever purpose. They collect these piles of derelict rock, on land, then use it as part of the process. So in essence they are using stuff that would otherwise have been used as landfill or left on the roadside.
I've never been to Fiji, never seen Walt's operations firsthand... just repeating as it was shown to our group at a conservation and education conference.
I can see both sides of the argument for or against this manufactured stuff. I don't have enough facts to have an opinion for or against it. Just relaying what I've been told... such as it is.
Jenn
He stated that there are piles of dead "live rock" on roadsides... where people have excavated for various reasons - building docks etc. The rock has already been displaced, for whatever purpose. They collect these piles of derelict rock, on land, then use it as part of the process. So in essence they are using stuff that would otherwise have been used as landfill or left on the roadside.
I've never been to Fiji, never seen Walt's operations firsthand... just repeating as it was shown to our group at a conservation and education conference.
I can see both sides of the argument for or against this manufactured stuff. I don't have enough facts to have an opinion for or against it. Just relaying what I've been told... such as it is.
Jenn
So you actually think you can take a natural resource and put it though a manufacturing process without an environmental cost? 8O What a salesman Walt is. :lol:
http://www.unescap.org/drpad/publicatio ... j03e04.htm
III. EXISTING INSTITUTIONS AND MEASURES FOR INTEGRATING ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS INTO DEVELOPMENT PLANNING AND DECISION-MAKING FOR SUVA CITY
[ A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H ]
E. National government agencies that have an impact on the Suva environment
[ E-1 | E-2 | E-3 | E-4 | E-5 | E-6 | E-7 ]
4. Ministry of Health
Of all the national government agencies the Ministry of Health has the greatest responsibility and direct impact on the environment of Suva. A range of diseases are linked to urban socio-economic and environmental problems such as poor informal housing, overcrowding, poor sanitation and hygiene, the absence of running water and poor nutrition.
The Ministry of Health is responsible for the Public Health Act which is implemented in collaboration with SCC and other local government authorities. The law on public nuisance under the Act provides some remedies for a multitude of environmental problems which have harmful health effects. Some specific situations which are considered to be a nuisance under the Act include: unsanitary streets, improperly kept water supplies; building refuse deposits; animal and bird shelters; polluting factories and businesses; overcrowded informal (squatter) housing; overcrowded cemeteries; and polluted harbours, rivers, ponds, ditches and foreshores.
Under the Public Health Act, local authorities such as SCC are vested with powers to control nuisances in their sanitary districts for public health and safety reasons. They are required to conduct inspections, determine sources of nuisances, and issue instructions for their abatement. Health officers or sanitary inspectors have the right to enter premises to examine the existence of a nuisance source at any time.
In response to air pollution, a National Air Pollution Control Unit was recently established by the Ministry of Health with the task of planning and implementing air pollution control programmes for the prevention and control of atmospheric pollution. The Unit is still in the start-up phase and needs further development. The services of an industrial chemist are required together with adequate laboratory facilities that provide full analytical capabilities.
Surveillance of water quality is done by the Ministry of Health pathology laboratory at the Colonial War Memorial Hospital. The laboratory carries out regular bacteriological monitoring of drinking water supplies. The Ministry of Health is also responsible for vector control. Dengue fever and filariasis are the most important mosquito-borne diseases prevalent in Fiji at present, although the incidence of both is sporadic. They are as much an urban disease problem as they are rural. In 1995, 21 per cent of the reported cases of dengue and 22 per cent of the filariasis cases occurred in the Suva area. Fiji is fortunate that it does not have malaria and a number of other mosquito-borne diseases.
Perhaps the most conspicuous pollute in Fiji is the cement manufacturing plant at Lami, on the outskirts of Suva. The factory smoke stack discharges large quantities of dust and particulates, and especially sulphur dioxide. Particularly effected by dust, smoke, odour and vapour are the surrounding residential areas from Uduya Point to Veisari. The Ministry of Health and the local government authorities have proved powerless in controlling that major public health problem. The factory is owned by Fijian Holdings Ltd, which represents indigenous provincial interests. It represents an excellent example of the protection of an import substitution industry with the full costs involved not being taken into account. It is also an example of communal interests taking preference over broader community interests. It remains to be seen whether or not the situation with respect to the cement factory will change with implementation of the Sustainable Development Act.
They have a large cement factory near Segrest Farms in Gibsonton, Fl. Drive by it some time and have a good look for yourself at what these plants are like. There ain't no way in hell you can convince me this process is more eco-friendly than picking up loose pieces of live rock rolling around in the surf. :wink:
Mitch
http://www.unescap.org/drpad/publicatio ... j03e04.htm
III. EXISTING INSTITUTIONS AND MEASURES FOR INTEGRATING ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS INTO DEVELOPMENT PLANNING AND DECISION-MAKING FOR SUVA CITY
[ A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H ]
E. National government agencies that have an impact on the Suva environment
[ E-1 | E-2 | E-3 | E-4 | E-5 | E-6 | E-7 ]
4. Ministry of Health
Of all the national government agencies the Ministry of Health has the greatest responsibility and direct impact on the environment of Suva. A range of diseases are linked to urban socio-economic and environmental problems such as poor informal housing, overcrowding, poor sanitation and hygiene, the absence of running water and poor nutrition.
The Ministry of Health is responsible for the Public Health Act which is implemented in collaboration with SCC and other local government authorities. The law on public nuisance under the Act provides some remedies for a multitude of environmental problems which have harmful health effects. Some specific situations which are considered to be a nuisance under the Act include: unsanitary streets, improperly kept water supplies; building refuse deposits; animal and bird shelters; polluting factories and businesses; overcrowded informal (squatter) housing; overcrowded cemeteries; and polluted harbours, rivers, ponds, ditches and foreshores.
Under the Public Health Act, local authorities such as SCC are vested with powers to control nuisances in their sanitary districts for public health and safety reasons. They are required to conduct inspections, determine sources of nuisances, and issue instructions for their abatement. Health officers or sanitary inspectors have the right to enter premises to examine the existence of a nuisance source at any time.
In response to air pollution, a National Air Pollution Control Unit was recently established by the Ministry of Health with the task of planning and implementing air pollution control programmes for the prevention and control of atmospheric pollution. The Unit is still in the start-up phase and needs further development. The services of an industrial chemist are required together with adequate laboratory facilities that provide full analytical capabilities.
Surveillance of water quality is done by the Ministry of Health pathology laboratory at the Colonial War Memorial Hospital. The laboratory carries out regular bacteriological monitoring of drinking water supplies. The Ministry of Health is also responsible for vector control. Dengue fever and filariasis are the most important mosquito-borne diseases prevalent in Fiji at present, although the incidence of both is sporadic. They are as much an urban disease problem as they are rural. In 1995, 21 per cent of the reported cases of dengue and 22 per cent of the filariasis cases occurred in the Suva area. Fiji is fortunate that it does not have malaria and a number of other mosquito-borne diseases.
Perhaps the most conspicuous pollute in Fiji is the cement manufacturing plant at Lami, on the outskirts of Suva. The factory smoke stack discharges large quantities of dust and particulates, and especially sulphur dioxide. Particularly effected by dust, smoke, odour and vapour are the surrounding residential areas from Uduya Point to Veisari. The Ministry of Health and the local government authorities have proved powerless in controlling that major public health problem. The factory is owned by Fijian Holdings Ltd, which represents indigenous provincial interests. It represents an excellent example of the protection of an import substitution industry with the full costs involved not being taken into account. It is also an example of communal interests taking preference over broader community interests. It remains to be seen whether or not the situation with respect to the cement factory will change with implementation of the Sustainable Development Act.
They have a large cement factory near Segrest Farms in Gibsonton, Fl. Drive by it some time and have a good look for yourself at what these plants are like. There ain't no way in hell you can convince me this process is more eco-friendly than picking up loose pieces of live rock rolling around in the surf. :wink:
Mitch
Like I said - I'm not disagreeing with you... and I don't know all the facts.
I have to agree with you in that nobody can claim there isn't an environmental impact - on *any* type of manufacturing.
I just relayed the information I had as it was told to me... without bias.
I don't sell the stuff, I don't particularly like the stuff, and honestly I have no interest in selling something like that which Petco will likely sell for less than I could anyway.
Jenn
I have to agree with you in that nobody can claim there isn't an environmental impact - on *any* type of manufacturing.
I just relayed the information I had as it was told to me... without bias.
I don't sell the stuff, I don't particularly like the stuff, and honestly I have no interest in selling something like that which Petco will likely sell for less than I could anyway.
Jenn
Heh you should try spending some time in the industrial midlands in England. Granted I haven't been back in over 20 years, but things ran there as they had forever... smoke and soot and a stink everywhere.
My father grew up across the street from "The Bolt and Nut"... factory where they were made - ran 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. PEEWWWWWW.
Let's face it, we're polluters
Jenn
My father grew up across the street from "The Bolt and Nut"... factory where they were made - ran 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. PEEWWWWWW.
Let's face it, we're polluters
Jenn
dizzy":3doxxom3 said:
cortez marine":3doxxom3 said:
Mitch, Steve & others,
The reason that I'm interested in the certified LR is because I'm curious about whether MAC can use it to meet MAMTI milestones.
According to the MAMTI document, MAC is required to have 3,000 certified export boxes from the Phiippines the first year. They projected that they'd have 3,360 certified boxes from Indonesia the first year as well, although there was no required number. MAC projected that MAMTI generated supply the first year would be 2% of worldwide supply and 2% of Phil. and Indo. supply. ( http://www.gefweb.org/Documents/Work_Pr ... 22mamti%22 , p. 128 )
I'm wondering whether MAC met it's first year milestones. I'm also wondering whether those milestones were met with or without the inclusion of LR boxes in the calculations.
-Lee
Also, one might be able to significantly improve their DOA, and DAA numbers if LR is incorporated into overall calculations.
MAC Core Standards define "dead" LR as "entire [...] rock mass is no longer living or, if partially alive, is not likely to be able to be restored to optimal health following a reasonable of good faith efforts for those responsible for acclimation." ( http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/pdf/MACC ... ANDARD.pdf , p. 12)
Restoring "optimal health" to LR seems highly subjective to me.
-Lee
MAC Core Standards define "dead" LR as "entire [...] rock mass is no longer living or, if partially alive, is not likely to be able to be restored to optimal health following a reasonable of good faith efforts for those responsible for acclimation." ( http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/pdf/MACC ... ANDARD.pdf , p. 12)
Restoring "optimal health" to LR seems highly subjective to me.
-Lee
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
wow!
Lee has just exposed the latest scam.
to meet the targets of livestock produced with tons and tons of dead rock....passing it off as an achievement.
steve
Lee has just exposed the latest scam.
to meet the targets of livestock produced with tons and tons of dead rock....passing it off as an achievement.
steve
JennM":17yirnbr said:Heh you should try spending some time in the industrial midlands in England. Granted I haven't been back in over 20 years, but things ran there as they had forever... smoke and soot and a stink everywhere.
My father grew up across the street from "The Bolt and Nut"... factory where they were made - ran 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. PEEWWWWWW.
Let's face it, we're polluters
Jenn
I'm not going to argue the point about us all being polluters. However what Walt is doing is taking a relatively low impact, clean activity and turning it into something much worse. Not only that but he is claiming the green highroad in doing so, when what he is actually doing is bending over for Petco. Consider the fact that all the smoke stacks at the cement plant contribute to greenhouse gases. Which as we all know contributes to global warming. Given the expected rise in sealevel, many places in Fiji will be negatively impacted as a result. Not to mention the damage that will be done to the coral reefs by the rising water temperatures. What hypocrisy. Someone should ask him about this stuff the next time he gives one of his green presentations.
Without independent corroboration of what Walt says, I don't know if we can believe what he says about his own operation. IME, its real easy to say its being done green, its quite another for it to actually be done that way.
I feel that this is actually the saddest part of the industry; people will say anything to get others to buy their products and there is no checking.
I feel that this is actually the saddest part of the industry; people will say anything to get others to buy their products and there is no checking.
JennM":1qopykat said:Heh you should try spending some time in the industrial midlands in England. Granted I haven't been back in over 20 years, but things ran there as they had forever... smoke and soot and a stink everywhere.
My father grew up across the street from "The Bolt and Nut"... factory where they were made - ran 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. PEEWWWWWW.
Let's face it, we're polluters
Jenn
I was there in 94, it was bad then
You should see what their rivers look like, below the plastic factpories. Or better yet, WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, living below the factories 8O Scary stuff. Never seen some many people with disabilities/birth defects, ie. missing limbs, etc.JennM":187o9nwt said:
But it would be much better to take the dead live rock, and put it in for aquaculturing, rather than burn it, to make aritificial rock for aquaculturing.
Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]
Sci Guy,
I don't understand how there can be ANY certified stock coming out of Phils since at least after May '06, as in my understanding of certification, and IMHO, there has not been the REQUIRED follow up by the certifiers to confirm that the corrective action plans have been completed since the initial, conditional "certification", which occurred in May '05. Also, there are only 3 certified areas in Phils that had been regularly producing "certified" stock and the total number of boxes from those areas is about 24 per week at best, DURING PEAK COLLECTION SEASON.
Mitch, Good point on the cement factories. According to the MAM standard, there are supposed to be NO, or minimal, negative environmental impact from the aquaculture of certified product. Maybe that doesn't include where the "raw materials" come from.....
Mark
I don't understand how there can be ANY certified stock coming out of Phils since at least after May '06, as in my understanding of certification, and IMHO, there has not been the REQUIRED follow up by the certifiers to confirm that the corrective action plans have been completed since the initial, conditional "certification", which occurred in May '05. Also, there are only 3 certified areas in Phils that had been regularly producing "certified" stock and the total number of boxes from those areas is about 24 per week at best, DURING PEAK COLLECTION SEASON.
Mitch, Good point on the cement factories. According to the MAM standard, there are supposed to be NO, or minimal, negative environmental impact from the aquaculture of certified product. Maybe that doesn't include where the "raw materials" come from.....
Mark
Thales":3parsz3c said:
why don't you grow some cojones and ban the troll from this forum?
all he does is spew ignorance and flames on stuff he knows absoutely nothing about
it got old years ago-there isn't ONE constructive or informative post from the troll
:roll:
i'll ban myself now
see you all next year (mebbe)-i'm too busy anyway helping to rape naesco's oceans on a wholesale scale to post much here anyway :lol:
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