Pro cyanide article

[just dave]

Also hiding who we really are can be very damaging when the truth is discovered. If you don't believe me just look at the mess over there. Better I think to be up front about who we are and what our experiences are. I've had experiences with dozens and dozens of the same species in the twenty years I've been in the business. How does that not qualify me to have an opinion that is at least equal to someone who has kept maybe one or two individuals of a certain species? I don't understand how owning a local fish store makes you unqualified to have an honest opinion.
Mitch

PS
I'm getting sick to death of political correctness.

I think you've missed my point (though I understand yours.)
I don't deny being a LFS operator.
I choose to participate on certain forums as a hobbyist for the enjoyment of it. It is known by many, on the forum I frequent, who I am and what I do. It's just that I don't want to talk business. It takes away from enjoyment of the forum and it can be TOS violation. If asked about my job I answer but I do not push my wares or flaunt my 'credentials.' If asked specific questions related to my store or my experiences with vendors , suppliers , wholesalers ,...etc I answer those via e-mail or PM. It's not that I'm ashamed to answer in public it is just they are my experiences and opinions and not necessarily facts. I do not want to cast a negative reflection on someones livelihood without irrefutable fact and even when I feel I have those facts I still would probably keep them to myself and 'voice' my displeasure via an absence of endorsement.
My PM box is filled enough ,by those who know, with questions that would not normally be asked of me if I were just Joe Hobbyist. If I touted the fact of who I was and what I did it would probably be much worse and be a lot less enjoyable for me. My feelings about being in certain forums as a hobbyist and not a LFS operator or so strong that I've turned down offers to have some of my aquariums as TOTM for certain sites as I felt my business gave me a unfair advantage over certain hobbyists. I know TOTM is not a contest but it is viewed by many as just that very thing.
I get enough of the business at work. Sometimes I just want to only be a hobbyist.

Now as to this forum on this board.

I've chosen to limit my involvement to a passive role but it's not because I'm ashamed of being a LFS operator.

What I feel and what I do is neither the right way or the wrong way , it's just my way.

 

[dizzy]

Steven,
Andy (spawner) told a similar story. Do you remember when the great dropshipping bruha was happening here a couple years ago. Well Andy stayed and the Drs. left this site. He got silenced pretty quick over there I believe. I think that sort of thing (dropshipping) still happens as witnessed by the $1.89# live rock you found. I'm surprised people like Just Dave don't think that sort of stuff is unfair. I sure as hell do.
Mitch

Dave I guess I'm just the opposite. I get enough of giving advice to hobbyists at work. Here I like to help look out for the interests of the trade. There are very serious threats that most just look over in the interest of making money for themselves.

Let me add one more point. I went to the last MO 04 to learn as much as I could about the issues facing our trade. I didn't go to promote myself or to make money. It wasn't a fun vacation either. I think those pictures I posted tell the real story, go look at them again. There is a great divide between the people of PI and Indo and the MAC, at least there is if Ferdie and Ruwi represent their countries. Andy Bruckner and Barbara Best have some tough decisons to make. The more accurate the information they receive the better able they will be to make the right choices to save the reefs. If closing the trade is the right choice I sure want to see it coming.
Mitch

 

[spawner]

Mitch,

It was more of a threat from JohnL than anything. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything you can do to stop the dropshipping and that wasn't my beef with that company. My problem was a large company using their DVMs and money to advertise completely false and misleading information to hobbyist that were least equiped to make the distinction of what is real and fake. Instead of helping people make good desicsions they were adding to the problem and that if a BBS allowed companies to influence hobbyist in a negative way they were part of the problem.

I ended up having a long talk with Race Foster about their companies advertising practices and I they changed their site to address some of my major concerns. My methods were not the best, but they sure got the point across. And frakely the fact that the mods didn't fry the thread shows that this BBS is here for the hobbyist and not for the money which is a rare thing in the industry.

 

[dizzy]

Well you certainly opened up a lot of eyes Andy. I wasn't even aware of the dropshipping until you blew the lid off it. When I see prices like this:

Live Aquaria has Fiji at $2.00/poundhttp://www.liveaquaria.com/product/...cfm?pCatId=2392

Dr. Mac's Cheapest is Kaelini at $1.98/pound


It is very obvious that dropshipping is alive and well. The question is does the practice harm the industry? Is this type of cutthroat, predatory pricing really fair to the rest of the industry? Hobbyist see it and then start making accusations that retailers are ripping them off if their rock is $4.99#. The same thing happens when the fish or corals are sold more cheaply because the etailer doesn't have to get the stuff shipped to their facility. A lot of retailers get bashed on the boards as being ripoffs if they can't match dropship predatory pricing on fish and corals too. Dropshippers don't have to take loses either. Isn't it just possible that the reason some stores look for lower priced (and possibly poorly handled) fish is due to this unfair advantage the dropshippers have? I think it even leads to a lot of stores trying to transship stuff in so they can compete and this in turn leads to a greater loss of animal life. If we ever hope to get this industry off cyanide and into taking better care of the livestock we need to give the good dealers a chance to compete. At least that's the way I see it.

 

[clarionreef]

Between the cold blooded chain stores and the know nothing drop shippers... the Walmart-ization of the trade is well under way.
The chance for intelligent planning and consumer support of better resource management has been delt a severe blow by this evolution of irresponsibility.
To cover for their sins and to try and improve their images...it goes without saying that both have sought after and hoped for certification by MAC.
The fact that MAC wanted to do it is evidence enough of their mercenary spirit above all else.
Ruining the chance for this is one of the things I'm proud of AMDA for doing.

Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

It all boils down to the wholesalers.
If they keep drop shipping for the enternet sites and selling to home based buinesses,
The LFS are going to continue to drop dead month after month.
Ten fish only stores have changed hands or gone out of business in my city during the last three years.
I went down to Jacksonville last week and noticed a thirty year old fish store is gone and five others around town which were around five years ago are gone or moved ito storage units and turned into tank installation/ maint companies. I looked for any new stores but could find any . As far as I know only two stores sell marine fish in the Jax area. That city used to support eight LFS stores with Marine.
All this and Hugo thinks the hobby has been doubling every three and a half years! Tell that to ERI and the down sizing LAX crowd.
Something need to give when a couple stolls into my store after eating at the Chinese place next door , they get excited with all the colorful corals that they never would have known could be kept in a reef tank at home and decide to get into the hobby ............But first they go home and look on the enternet for prices ...........buy most of the dry goods and live rock over the web..........then come back to my store for hours of free advise because the places they purchased from on the net dont actualy have a phone number listed on their website or the guy works at 7-11 during the day !
My dry good supplier sells to stores working out of storage units.
The wholesalers in LA sell to people operating out of their homes .
And it's me and the other local LFS store which spend thousands a month to create these newbies and get the public exposed to the hobby with our visible high dollar retail locations.
I will bet Jacksonville has 90 percent less hobbyists due to there not being very many stores around anylonger.
That translates into less business for both the dry good wholesaler and the live stock gang on 104 street in LA.
Cant the suppliers see past their Golden Fannys and be Leaders instead of a bunch of Fish heads Dwelling in their short sighted Underwater worlds?

 

[dizzy]

Here is one last shot of the panel listening to questions/comments from the audience. The thing that jumps out at me is how subdued the wild radical Steve Robinson was throughout the entire discussion. He was very mild mannered. To think that some are suggesting that his presence on the panel is reason to boycott is laughable. While he may be a terror on these bbs he is nothing but a puppy dog in real life. His talk on nets and netting was quite good however. Pictures don't lie.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

Why er..thanks Mitch...
But whats a radical? 8O
From what I can discern here in this sub culture of the aquarium trade, its one who actually believes in something besides cashflow...but I'm not sure.
Another definition is one who will not sell core values out for a free vacation, hotel room and meals.
Steve
PS.
Actually economic determinism is a poor basis for a philisophical anchor. Whoops...there I go again. self delete...self delete...

 

[dizzy]

xxx