Another bombshell ; high level firing at MAC

[Jaime Baquero]

Assertions about the reduction in the use of cyanide and about the reduction in mortality in trade are pure bunk. The MAC has accomplished nothing except to Greenwash a bunch of corrupt exporters (mostly in Indonesia and the Philippines) who routinely distribute cyanide to fish collectors. Nothing has changed.

Mark my words, this will not continue. Governments in the Philippines and Indonesia are beginning to react to the problems of destructive/illegal fishing and on the terrestrial side to destructive/illegal logging. The MAC will need to prove that MAC Certified fish are cyanide-free. If they cannot then they will not be welcome anymore.

The NGOs to watch are Telepak in Indonesia and the East Asian Seas and Terrestrial Initiatives (EASTI) in the Philippines. They have programs that are involved with community-based aquaculture, and with training collectors of marine aquarium fish to use nets, pack properly, and to better handle the fish to reduce the mortality. I am providing scientific support to both EASTI and to Telapak. So is Dr. Ralph Turingan with the Florida Institute of Technology (FIT). Progress is being made. At least more progress than the MAC. Accomplishments not greenwashed Certification are what count.

Peter Rubec

I am providing scientific support to both EASTI and to Telapak. So is Dr. Ralph Turingan with the Florida Institute of Technology (FIT). Progress is being made.

Peter, is because of your scientific support and Dr. Turingan's that things are going to change? You've been working the cyanide issue in the Philippines since the early 80's, working with IMA and other people related to the issue, providing scientific support.

You said " ]Assertions about the reduction in the use of cyanide and about the reduction in mortality in trade are pure bunk. Does it mean that nothing has changed? Does it mean that all the time and grants that IMA got....... accomplished nothing? What makes you think that EASTI and Telapak are the NGOs to watch?

Jaime

 

[naesco]

hmmmm....
I think he believes the process to be Democratic and that public input is welcome. A noble thought.
The candidates are already known and they are of course ...as predicted here...from inside the old system and outside the aquarium trade.
The WWF calls the shots.
Steve
PS. I do talk to MAC folks often....or ex MAC folks as it were ...since they were all...er... "de-certified."
The new "professionals" are largely unknown and hard to know since they get sacked all too often as well. This shuffling the deck on the Titanic is hard to keep track of.

I really do believe that the decision makers at MAC will listen to the opinion of industry.
If industry chooses not to provide input into the selection ,than they cannot complain that industry was not listened to.
Maybe, as you have suggested the fix is in but maybe you might have some say.

May I respectfully suggest that you all give them a call.

 

[Anonymous]

hmmmm....
I think he believes the process to be Democratic and that public input is welcome. A noble thought.
The candidates are already known and they are of course ...as predicted here...from inside the old system and outside the aquarium trade.
The WWF calls the shots.
Steve
PS. I do talk to MAC folks often....or ex MAC folks as it were ...since they were all...er... "de-certified."
The new "professionals" are largely unknown and hard to know since they get sacked all too often as well. This shuffling the deck on the Titanic is hard to keep track of.

I really do believe that the decision makers at MAC will listen to the opinion of industry.
If industry chooses not to provide input into the selection ,than they cannot complain that industry was not listened to.
Maybe, as you have suggested the fix is in but maybe you might have some say.

May I respectfully suggest that you all give them a call.

why do you think that industry should be particularly interested in anything mac specifically, has to say or do ?

are you aware that plenty of people have tried to contact mac in the past for clarifications/explanations of certain things mac, and were never replied to/ignored?

do you have even a teeny clue what you're talking about ?

please define 'industry'

 

[PeterIMA]

Jaime,

I agree that the problems asssociated with the MO trade are difficult. But, they can be solved to the benefit of the entire trade. It does little good to blame "the industry" like they are one unified entity.

More needs to be done to train MO collectors in the handling, transport, and collection methods (use of nets). The MAC's programs have serious problems that can be corrected, if they hire someone like Steve Robinson or Ferdinand Cruz.

Right now, Ferdinand is fully occupied with his own programs in both Indonesia and the Philippines. A Filipino collector working for EASTI recently did "corrective trainings" with some collectors in Les and at several other locations in Indonesia.

You are right that part of the blame lies with the Philippine and Indonesian government agencies. Along with Indonesian staff from Telapak, I met with government officials during my last visit to Indonesia at the end of March 2007. I know they want to solve the problems of destructive fishing. They have funding that they are willing to use for community-based training/education programs and alternative livelihood implementation.

There also have been discussions between Ferdinand Cruz of EASTI
and Philippine government officials. They also seem willing to sponsor programs conducted by Filipino NGOs.


The IMA's trainings did not go far enough to ensure that the collectors had markets for net-caught fish and that they obtained fair equity. The exportes look at everything based on price without considering the quality of the fish. Do they live or not?

I have been involved in developing a shipping tablet that we have tested in both the Philippines and in Indonesia. They have been used to reduce the mortality from the field to export facilities and for overseas shipments. Eventually, the tablets will be sold to exporters and others who are willing to try them.

So, some of the problems are technical and some are political. But, there seems to be a new willingness to work together to solve them.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

I wonder whether funding for MAMTI is in jeopardy due to MAC failing to achieve their metrics?

Remember this document?

http://www.gefweb.org/Documents/Work_Pr ... 22mamti%22

 

[PeterIMA]

SciGuy2

I suspect that the MAC's programs are under review by the World Bank GEF who funded MAMTI. There was a group consisting of 5 persons, that recently visited Les with representatives from the Philippines, Indonesia, the USA, Australia, and Vietnam. They visited MAC Certified export facilities and the one run by Telapak's business arm Porsonusantara near the village of Les on the Island of Bali. We don't know whether they were associated with the MAMTI program or not.

Peter Rubec

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Jaime,

I agree that the problems asssociated with the MO trade are difficult. But, they can be solved to the benefit of the entire trade. It does little good to blame "the industry" like they are one unified entity.

More needs to be done to train MO collectors in the handling, transport, and collection methods (use of nets). The MAC's programs have serious problems that can be corrected, if they hire someone like Steve Robinson or Ferdinand Cruz.

Right now, Ferdinand is fully occupied with his own programs in both Indonesia and the Philippines. A Filipino collector working for EASTI recently did "corrective trainings" with some collectors in Les and at several other locations in Indonesia.

You are right that part of th blame lies with the Philippine and Indonesian government agencies. Along with Indonesian staff from Telapak, I met with government officials during my last visit to Indonesia at the end of March 2007. I know they want to solve the problems of destructive fishing. They have funding that they are willing to use for community-based training/education programs and alternative livelihood implementation.

There also have been discussions between Ferdinand Cruz of EASTI
and Philippine government officials. They also seem willing to sponsor programs conducted by Filipino NGOs.


The IMA's trainings did not go far enough to ensure that the collectors had markets for net-caught fish and that they obtained fair equity. The exportes look at everything based on price without considering the quality of the fish. Do they live or not?

I have been involved in developing a shipping tablet that we have tested in both the Philippines and in Indonesia. They have been used to reduce the mortality from the field to export facilities and for overseas shipments. Eventually, the tablets will be sold to exporters and others who are willing to try them.

So, some of the problems are technical and some are political. But, there seems to be a new willingness to work together to solve them.

Peter Rubec

The MAC's programs have serious problems that can be corrected, if they hire someone like Steve Robinson or Ferdinand Cruz.

Peter,

What is needed is someone capable of bringing people together, someone with leadership and someone in good terms with people within the industry. Some one honest, who has not pending debts related to the trade, someone who has not "skeletons in the closet ".

In the case of the Philippines and Indonesia, where more attention is required, must be someone with manners and tact to deal directly with the exporters, no someone that has been accusing them of criminals. Tact and manners are important I think Ferdinand Cruz is "probably" better qualified to do the job. It is a Filipino problem to be solved by them, it's Ferdinand's country and he knows better his people.

Peter, something has to be done in order to wake up the big names of this industry and make them to be part of the reform process. What can be done to accomplish that? I really think that is time for them to put something back.

Interesting what you said about the "shipping tablets".

 

[naesco]

Jaime, Dr. Rubec

In my opinion MAC needs someone outside of the current MAC leadership but in order to be sucessful they must first purge the Board of Directors of those who continue to be part of the cyanide cartel.

They need someone outside of industry who is a seasoned CEO who is prepared to:

Firstly, demand results from his subordinates and those that contract with MAC to perform needed services like net training. For example, training contractors must show results: budget, fishers trained, timeframe.

Secondly, work with the Governments involved and their representatives to crack down on the cyanide trade within the countries involved. In the case of the Philippines charge, convict and imprison those at all levels that continue dealing in cyanide. In the US, charge, convict and imprison those that knowingly deal with the cyanide cartel abroad.

Jaime we all know that industry will never change unless they are forced to. The time is not for 'working with industry' the time is to challenge them if cyanide is to stop and the islands are renewed to there original beauty for the benefit of all particularly the fishers who have seen the reefs and their livelihood destroyed.

Wayne Ryan

 

[PeterIMA]

Jaime and Wayne and other interested parties,

I agree there is a need for someone who is a seasoned CEO to lead the MAC and to provide leadership that can work effectively with the various factions within the MO "industry", government agencies, conservation-based NGOs, and other parties.

Right now, it does not look hopeful that the groups funded by MAMTI (MAC, ReefCheck, and CCIF) are willing to go outside their organizations to choose such a leader. Groups like EASTI and Telepak feel that they can make a difference with or without help from the organizations within MAMTI. EASTI and Telepak are not sure that the MAMTI organizations deserve further support from governments or funding agecies like USAID or the World Bank. Non-performance of their stated goals has been demonstrated and are sufficient grounds for the funders to pull the plug.

If however, the MAC or WWF (which seems to control MAC leadership more than the MAC BOD) can make the leap from Greenwashing to honest reform by choosing an honest competent leader, then the MAC might earn the right to gain the support of the governments of Indonesia and the Philippines and the support of other NGOs outside of MAMTI. The original idea of the MAC was that it would act as an umbrella to work with NGOs (like IMA, CORL, OVI, Haribon) and trade groups (like PFTEA, AKAII, AMDA, PIJAC etc). Instead, the MAC took it on itself to conduct net-trainings and other programs that should have been contracted out to other groups (whether they were part of the MAC BOD or not).

There is at least one qualified person who I have encouraged to apply for the job of Executive Director of the MAC. There probably are others. They are not the ones being discussed over the grapevine that tells me that the groups within MAMTI seek to choose someone from within. The names of those within being discussed privately are not persons well-liked by either the companies within the trade, by the USCRTF, or by conservation-based NGOs like EASTI or Telapak.

So, it comes down to a question of whether the new Executive Director is someone who is liked and respected for his/her impartiality, the ability to lead, and to unite the various factions to support honest reform.

Another critical question is whether the new MAC Executive Director can raise new funding. Rumor has it, that the MAC has been cutting funding for its field programs, which suggests that the MAC is running out of funds faster than was projected under the original MAMTI budget.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

folks-it just ain't gonna happen-anything connected with mamti, mac, or the wwf is gonna get y'all absolutely nowhere

if someone from 'outside the industry' is attempted, it'll end up a laughing stock, as well-do you honestly think any industry person (here or there) will listen to some johnny come lately noob's opinions? :lol:

 

[dizzy]

Well I still think Svein Fossa would be an excellent choice for the job.

 

[Anonymous]

Race Foster would be a great choice.

 

[Piero]

Race really opened up on this thread?

 

[Race]

My focus is on domestic aquaculture and the reduction of livestock losses once they hit U.S. soil. It is all work in progress but I enjoy the educational approach, especially of the aquarist.

Overseas initiatives are important but so are the reduction of domestic losses through better handling and care. Aquaculture will reduce the need for select wild caught species.

I also enjoy educating the opposing domestic groups and policy makers on the merits of our hobby.

One thing that I will add. The MAC bashers should stop being negative and begin leading by example. Perhaps come up with an alternative to MAC that works and has funding.

Thanks, Race

 

[mkirda]

MAC was dead three years ago.

The crux of the matter is that there are less than a dozen folks that are on this forum that truly understand the task at hand. Worse is that the hobby as a whole doesn't give a rat's rear.

How do I know? Try talking to stores that import direct. Tell them that you know of a source for honest-to-goodness net-caught PI fish.

Guess what?

THEY AREN'T INTERESTED!!! They won't even take the contact information.

It sucks absolutely as I know the product because I have observed its capture, have observed the holding and know how it is shipped.

I don't know how some can keep up the fight, banging their heads up against the US industry indifference day in and day out. If it were not for European aquarists (as most of these fish end up there), these efforts would have ended long ago. Pity we cannot get them.

There is so much more to add, but I need to stop here.

So long, Paul. Thanks for all the fish!

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Race]

I would suggest channeling time, energy and money towards a new plan. The " less than a dozen " people on this board who have the answers should get together, whop up some cash and develop an action plan. Attacking MAC is fruitless, especially if they have been deceased for three years.

Race

 

[mkirda]

I would suggest channeling time, energy and money towards a new plan. The " less than a dozen " people on this board that have the answers should get together, whop up some cash and develop an action plan.

Race,

How would *you* attack industry apathy?

You currently have two outfits that have their act together and are shipping good net-caught fish.

Both are struggling for the simple reason that they can't get anyone interested in trying them out in the US.

At this point, the 'problem' in the supply chain isn't in Indo or PI. It is here in the good 'ol US of A, and is called "lack of market support".

If an area in PI or Indo can get its act together and ship good clean fish in good variety, but fails due to lack of market support, what lesson does that teach?

Well, pretty simple. That the market doesn't care about good clean fish.

So if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Race]

I do not have the global answers which is why I have not rendered an opinion on MAC. I learned long ago to study situations and not point fingers until I could do better. There is nothing wrong with trying and failing---- especially if something is learned.

There seems to be certain individuals on this forum, one in particular, who constantly attacks yet offers no solutions. That in itself has undermined progress and is the reason that the domestic industry is in turmoil. A cancer if you will.

The industry has no union of which the failed AMDA is proof. Personally, I have chosen a different path, a lonely one, and domestic change will simply take more time. It is happening and will continue. Once we pull together here then we can make progress there. It will not happen before.

Race

 

[PeterIMA]

Mike, As you know (but some others don't) I have been collaborating with Ferdinand Cruz and have imported net-caught fish from both PI and Indo over the past year. I do agree that most US importers don't care whether fish are net-caught or not (just the price). Most of the fish are exported to Europe. Europeans do care whether or not the fish live or die and are willing to pay for good fish.

I have been collecting data on the DOA and the DAA on shipments I have been receiving in Florida. Most of the shipments I receive have been in the boxes for about 50 hours. Using the shipping tablets and some other simple packing techniques, we have pretty much eliminated the DAA and are making headway on eliminating the DOA.

I would agree that if some major importers got behind what we are doing we could solve the DOA/DAA problem and produce better fish that live. Race, why aren't you interested in this?

Peter Rubec

 

[mkirda]

There seem to be certain individuals on this forum, one in particular, who constantly attacks yet offers no solutions. That in itself has undermined progress and is the reason that the domestic industry is in turmoil. A cancer if you will.

The industry has no union of which the failed AMDA is proof. Personally, I have chosen a different path, a lonely one, and domestic change will simply take more time. It is happening and will continue. Once we pull together here then we can make progress there. It will not happen before.

Race

There is no one person here that can affect the entire industry, Race. Please leave personal grudges out of this.

Very enlightening response in the next paragraph though. If the Flips solve their problems on their own and offer us a good variety of non-cyanide caught fish, what reforms are we needing here? And even more pressing would be WHY?

Regards.
Mike Kirda