My visit to MAC certified collection areas in Phils

[mark@mac]

All,

I (and a colleague) have just returned from a trip to Bohol and Cebu. I was there exploring interest in a new, more common sense approach to eradicating cyanide use not only with MAF collection, but live food fishing as well. While there, I of course visited some old friends amongst the original MAC certified collectors/coordinators.

We had heard that the communities were not happy with the way that they were being treated by the new MAC MAMTI Team and that their grievances were being blocked from reaching the MAC Board.

We met with all the original MAC certified collectors/coordinators. They and now I are quite disgusted with how they are being treated since last year by the new "MAMTI" management team.

They are being treated in a very disrespectful manner and are being forced to do things they otherwise wouldn't do; eg. like taking out loans for things they don't want or really need, having exporters contact info withheld from them, etc.... Their comments and concerns are being ignored or silenced. They can't even get MAC to supply or sell them, or make a loan to them to purchase new netting materials desperately needed! The “business” component of MAMTI was supposed to enhance the fishers business, however, they say their business is worse than ever now.

I am appalled with what is happening there. MAC is now working on 2 new sites in Bohol and have apparently "pulled out" of Batasan and Clarin for the most part except for getting data which is needed for reporting. Most of the attention is being focused on certifying the 2 new sites in Bohol... Like we really need more certified mandarin, chelmon, and maroon clown!!

Camotes is still being worked in as that is the base of the "TRACKING NEMO" project.

What is also apparent is that technically THERE ARE NO CERTIFIED FISH from these areas and that the claims being made that there is are a sham.

The sites in Bohol and Cebu are technically no longer MAC Certified as they have not undertaken the corrective action necessary following their assessments and re-assessments last year. In fact since Peter Scott was sacked (he was working on this with the certifiers involved) it appears that no-one is helping the collectors maintain their certification. What an utter mess! Many of you know that I sold MAC certification for years; but I'm not sure what it means anymore.....

I don’t intend this to sound as a bashing, but rather enlightenment for the industry and hobby to the atrocities that are being enacted by these groups professing to help.

Sincerely,

Mark

 

[naesco]

Thanks for your post.
Mark
Could you enlighten us as well about your 'approach to the problem' of the use of cyanide in the Philippines. What can be done?
Are you aware that there was a warehouse in the Philippines full of netting which had been donated by hobbyist a couple of years ago?

Is it still commonly used in non-MAC areas?
Do you see the effects of its use on coral?
In the non-MAC areas is there any enforcement?
Just who is buying the cyanide caught fish?
It has been posted that poor fishers are sold cyanide by the same people who buy their fish. Is this a truce statement.

Please continue to post you first hand experience.
Thank you
Wayne

 

[clarionreef]

All we are saaayyyy-ing..... Is give MAC a chance....

4 more years....4 more years...! :lol:
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your post.
Mark
Could you enlighten us as well about your 'approach to the problem' of the use of cyanide in the Philippines. What can be done?
Are you aware that there was a warehouse in the Philippines full of netting which had been donated by hobbyist a couple of years ago?

Is it still commonly used in non-MAC areas?
Do you see the effects of its use on coral?
In the non-MAC areas is there any enforcement?
Just who is buying the cyanide caught fish?
It has been posted that poor fishers are sold cyanide by the same people who buy their fish. Is this a truce statement.

Please continue to post you first hand experience.
Thank you
Wayne

it's a pity you don't spend as much time badgering your heroes from mac as you do the good posters on this forum


marc just indicated to you that the organization you have been lauding for nigh the past three years here is full of despicable despots, yet all you can do is ask someone who you should know knows about the netting simply by virtue of his job, if he knows about the netting ??!!!


:roll:

 

[dizzy]

Mark,
Thanks for the update. I'm sorry things aren't better over there. Just keep fighting the good fight.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

Netting?
You mean netting material is important?
I think we lost that argument.
Something about it being just a small, overblown component of a grander thing.
Forget nuance, details, the locals, culture, specifics, policies and procedures people. Just concentrate on the big fuzzy picture.
Thats where the money is.
Steve
PS.
But seriously,
Thank you for the report Marc!
I'd love to hear more of the trip down there.

 

[naesco]

Vitz read Mark's post.
What was the purpose of his visit? CYANIDE

I really wish you would read the posts instead of engaging in personal attacks.

Wayne

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
With all due respect...
Buhol has been close to NGOs and training off of cyanide for 20 years now.
They are the friendliest, easiest to train and most willing of all the tropical fishers in the Philippines.
They have been involved in netting fishes for 20 years now.
How on earth can they not be parlayed into a success?
Its no longer about cyanide but the interface of outside groups who milk the cyanide issue and blow it repeatly.
Steve

 

[naesco]

Wayne,
With all due respect...
Buhol has been close to NGOs and training off of cyanide for 20 years now.
They are the friendliest, easiest to train and most willing of all the tropical fishers in the Philippines.
They have been involved in netting fishes for 20 years now.
How on earth can they not be parlayed into a success?
Its no longer about cyanide but the interface of outside groups who milk the cyanide issue and blow it repeatly.
Steve

Thanks for that info Steve.
What do you think the chances are that the netting is still sitting in the warehouse unused?
Wayne

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
Thats just handnetting....
Theres a huge amount and the amount sent can never be all used.
What was needed was a balance of netting materials [ both handnet and barrier net] and training to go with it by aquarium fish savy group.
A group like the one Ferdie is working with now.
Steve

MAC hardly qualifies to receive any free netting as ;
1] They have spent millions...surely a thousand could've gone to nets
2] They have an extremely low level of credibility on this stuff now.
They have not a clue as to how to proceed as Mark has testified.
3] They just want it as a handout as a deodorant in attempt to show that they know what they're doing.
4] They were not exactly in the good graces of the net fund sponsors in the first place....and were not involved with it at all.

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz read Mark's post.
What was the purpose of his visit? CYANIDE

I really wish you would read the posts instead of engaging in personal attacks.

Wayne

Thanks for that info Steve.
What do you think the chances are that the netting is still sitting in the warehouse unused?
Wayne

Thanks for your post.
Mark
Could you enlighten us as well about your 'approach to the problem' of the use of cyanide in the Philippines. What can be done?
Are you aware that there was a warehouse in the Philippines full of netting which had been donated by hobbyist a couple of years ago?
Is it still commonly used in non-MAC areas?
Do you see the effects of its use on coral?
In the non-MAC areas is there any enforcement?
Just who is buying the cyanide caught fish?
It has been posted that poor fishers are sold cyanide by the same people who buy their fish. Is this a truce statement.

Please continue to post you first hand experience.
Thank you
Wayne

er- seems i have indeed read the posts-what exactly did i miss?


did you read your own posts ?

 

[PeterIMA]

Wayne, I think the different types of netting used by collectors of marine aquarium fish was discussed previously on RDO.

Since, MAC has lots of funding they don't need the hand netting that Mary Middlebrook purchased with funds obtained from marine hobbyists. Ferdinand is using it with his trainings (more on this later). The collectors still need the 2 lb netting used to create barrier nets (also called fence nets).

Steve and I visited a net-supplier in Honolulu 3 years ago and Steve used AMDA funding to provide barrier nets to the collectors in the village of Les on the Island of Bali. The MAC knows where to buy this type of netting, but still does not distribute it to the collectors. Why not?

Mark has just explained that even the MAC Certified Collectors in Batasan and Clarin, municipality of Tubigon on the Island of Bohol still cannot get the netting and lack other support from the MAC. When someone directly involved with the MAC tells you this, you should listen. The MAC's programs are a total failure in the Philippines. Now do you get it?

I do not see where Mark discussed cyanide. Yes, cyanide is part of the problem, but other issues are the pricing paid by the exporters to the collectors. Another issue is whether or not degraded sites like Batasan and Clarin are sustainable and what the word sustainable means. My question is why is the MAC now trying to Certify collectors situated at other sites that are seriously degraded?

If all one can collect sustainably off Bohol (no decline in catch per unit effort) are a few species like maroon clowns and copperband butterflyfish, why certify in these areas? The collectors cannot obtain enough from selling a few species to make a living wage above the Philippine poverty threshold. Without more diversity and more high priced species the collecting in degraded areas is not economic (cannot make a profit). Wouldn't it be better to Certify collectors in areas with high species diversity and high fish numbers?

Peter Rubec

 

[naesco]

Thanks for the info Dr. Rubec

Here is the intro to Mark's post.

"""""I was there exploring interest in a new, more common sense approach to eradicating cyanide use not only with MAF collection, but live food fishing as well."""""

 

[Anonymous]

Wayne,
With all due respect...
Buhol has been close to NGOs and training off of cyanide for 20 years now.
They are the friendliest, easiest to train and most willing of all the tropical fishers in the Philippines.
They have been involved in netting fishes for 20 years now.
How on earth can they not be parlayed into a success?
Its no longer about cyanide but the interface of outside groups who milk the cyanide issue and blow it repeatly.
Steve

Thanks for that info Steve.
What do you think the chances are that the netting is still sitting in the warehouse unused?
Wayne

Um, it is being used Wayne :roll:

 

[naesco]

That is really good news, Gresh.
Hobbyists will face off again when its time to provide more.

 

[Anonymous]

but it's not news-even ruwi posted here re: what's going on with the netting.... others have as well-you read the 'news' many times here on this forum-i'm sure if i dig up the thread, you'll be on it

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update Mark, hope to catch you when you make it home sometime.

Norm

 

[Anonymous]

Wayne, I think the different types of netting used by collectors of marine aquarium fish was discussed previously on RDO.

Since, MAC has lots of funding they don't need the hand netting that Mary Middlebrook purchased with funds obtained from marine hobbyists. Ferdinand is using it with his trainings (more on this later). The collectors still need the 2 lb netting used to create barrier nets (also called fence nets).

Steve and I visited a net-supplier in Honolulu 3 years ago and Steve used AMDA funding to provide barrier nets to the collectors in the village of Les on the Island of Bali. The MAC knows where to buy this type of netting, but still does not distribute it to the collectors. Why not?

Mark has just explained that even the MAC Certified Collectors in Batasan and Clarin, municipality of Tubigon on the Island of Bohol still cannot get the netting and lack other support from the MAC. When someone directly involved with the MAC tells you this, you should listen. The MAC's programs are a total failure in the Philippines. Now do you get it?

I do not see where Mark discussed cyanide. Yes, cyanide is part of the problem, but other issues are the pricing paid by the exporters to the collectors. Another issue is whether or not degraded sites like Batasan and Clarin are sustainable and what the word sustainable means. My question is why is the MAC now trying to Certify collectors situated at other sites that are seriously degraded?

If all one can collect sustainably off Bohol (no decline in catch per unit effort) are a few species like maroon clowns and copperband butterflyfish, why certify in these areas? The collectors cannot obtain enough from selling a few species to make a living wage above the Philippine poverty threshold. Without more diversity and more high priced species the collecting in degraded areas is not economic (cannot make a profit). Wouldn't it be better to Certify collectors in areas with high species diversity and high fish numbers?

Peter Rubec

indeed it was, with wayne involved :

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=55865
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=73675

these are only two of many he's jabbered in

 

[mark@mac]

Quote:
Thanks for your post.
Mark
Could you enlighten us as well about your 'approach to the problem' of the use of cyanide in the Philippines. What can be done?
Are you aware that there was a warehouse in the Philippines full of netting which had been donated by hobbyist a couple of years ago?
Is it still commonly used in non-MAC areas?
Do you see the effects of its use on coral?
In the non-MAC areas is there any enforcement?
Just who is buying the cyanide caught fish?
It has been posted that poor fishers are sold cyanide by the same people who buy their fish. Is this a truce statement.

Please continue to post you first hand experience.
Thank you
Wayne


Wayne,

Cyanide is not the only, or maybe not even the biggest problem on the reefs. I believe more damage is done by blast fishing and other "uses", however there are many serious impacts to the reefs.

I am working with others on a proram that includes a more comprensive approach to sustainable fisheries through not ony eradicating destructive fishing practices, but more importantly empowering the resource users with knowledge through marine education; especially the youth (why retrain fishers when it may be cheaper to teach them right to begin with?).... and, as Peter R. mentioned, there is the market aspect too... overly competitive pricing has undervalued the natural resource in many cases... which contributes to over fishing.


Yes, I have heard there is a "wharehouse" full of netting, however I don't know who has access to it or who is supposed to distribute it. Ferdie?

I can only say that I have seen many reefs in Phils that after having destructive fishing stopped, especailly blast fishing, the reefs are coming back. But these areas have decent enforcement. There is a lot more to do here.

As far as enforcement goes, there is little or no enforcement in MAC and non-MAC areas. This is however beginning to change in some areas as LGU's are begining to claim their resources and start protecting them from destruction.

I cannot comment on who is buying cyanide caught fish or who is supplying it. I do know, unfortunately, cyanide is still readily available.

Mark

 

[PeterIMA]

Mark, If you have a legitimate use for hand netting let me know. I can contact Ferdinand Cruz to find out the status of that netting. He is using it with the trainings he is conducting associated with his grant. As far as I know that was its intended use. Mary Middlebrook would roll over in her grave (whenever she dies sometime in the next 50 years) if she knew the netting paid for by marine hobbyists (from Reef Central) had been given to the MAC. So, provided you are no longer associated with the MAC, Ferdinand might provide you with netting.

Peter Rubec