A
Anonymous
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Odd, funding a program to "help improve shipping and handling procedures". Wonder what scientist is all ready conducting said expirements?
US Coral Reef Task Force Cyanide Enforcement & Detection
- Thread starter naesco
- Start date
Gresham, Well, yes I am doing research on shipping and handling at my own expense without any grant to help benefit the aquarium trade. So, I guess it was on my mind. But, it was not a pitch on my part for funding.
My point in my previous posting was that anything that is of concern to the trade can be presented to the USCRTF. Maybe their recommendations can help convince the US Government to provide funding or take other steps to help improve the trade.
I hope that clarifies your concerns.
Peter
My point in my previous posting was that anything that is of concern to the trade can be presented to the USCRTF. Maybe their recommendations can help convince the US Government to provide funding or take other steps to help improve the trade.
I hope that clarifies your concerns.
Peter
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Peter wrote;
"SeaWatch and other environmental groups are reviewing cyanide testing methods and are assisting the US Coral Reef Task Force to identify experts for the CDT committee that is being created."
Peter,
Didn't MAC win a 350 k grant from McArther Foundation in 2001 or so to evaluate and develop the a CDT test?
Steve
"SeaWatch and other environmental groups are reviewing cyanide testing methods and are assisting the US Coral Reef Task Force to identify experts for the CDT committee that is being created."
Peter,
Didn't MAC win a 350 k grant from McArther Foundation in 2001 or so to evaluate and develop the a CDT test?
Steve
First, there was a reliable CDT test applied by the IMA under contract for BFAR. Personally, I don't see the need to develop a new test.
However, the MAC has stated that there is a need. They were unsuccessful with the work they did with Merck in conjunction with BFAR during 2003. The MAC also contracted Dr. Renneberg at a university situated in Hong Kong. Dr. Karen Mak has refined an enzyme-based cyanide test. They published on this last year. It is not clear whether or not the MAC endorses the Hong Kong test.
The McArthur grant to MAC in 2001 was to review exisitng cyanide testing methods. I don't believe that the MAC even formed the CDT committee that would have reviewed the tests. I don't recall that the McArthur grant was to "develop" a new test. Usually, a new test needs extensive evaluation, and round robin comparisons between laboratories. Notbing like that has occurred that I know of.
Now the USCRTF has announced that they will review existing cyanide testing procedures to determine if any can be applied for testing marine aquarium fishes entering the USA. They first announced that it would include testing/analytical experts from within the US government. I was not surprized to learn they couldn't find anyone in the US government agencies knowledgeable about cyanide testing. So, now they will let SeaWeb do this. A committee created by the USCRTF will meet to review existing cyanide testing procedures. What will happen after that is anyone's guess.
Peter
However, the MAC has stated that there is a need. They were unsuccessful with the work they did with Merck in conjunction with BFAR during 2003. The MAC also contracted Dr. Renneberg at a university situated in Hong Kong. Dr. Karen Mak has refined an enzyme-based cyanide test. They published on this last year. It is not clear whether or not the MAC endorses the Hong Kong test.
The McArthur grant to MAC in 2001 was to review exisitng cyanide testing methods. I don't believe that the MAC even formed the CDT committee that would have reviewed the tests. I don't recall that the McArthur grant was to "develop" a new test. Usually, a new test needs extensive evaluation, and round robin comparisons between laboratories. Notbing like that has occurred that I know of.
Now the USCRTF has announced that they will review existing cyanide testing procedures to determine if any can be applied for testing marine aquarium fishes entering the USA. They first announced that it would include testing/analytical experts from within the US government. I was not surprized to learn they couldn't find anyone in the US government agencies knowledgeable about cyanide testing. So, now they will let SeaWeb do this. A committee created by the USCRTF will meet to review existing cyanide testing procedures. What will happen after that is anyone's guess.
Peter
I don't foresee them using the current CDT as a US legal binding test. I know lawyers could fight it, and most likely win. Not to mention the whole "clean out in seapens" issue. It won't do a darn thing to curb cyanide buying on this side of the pond. It's just going to teach them to clean them out for longer, and make them even weaker when they arrive. Drive up prices, drive down quality, yup, sounds right in track for a government policy.
I agree with Gresham 100%!
In my understanding of this, the CDT test(s) do work, it's just that the longer the period between cyanide exposure/collection of the fish, and the actual testing, the less accurate the results will be. And as was stated, any fish thought or known to be collected with cyanide will just get little longer period to "clean out" before being shipped.....
In my understanding of this, the CDT test(s) do work, it's just that the longer the period between cyanide exposure/collection of the fish, and the actual testing, the less accurate the results will be. And as was stated, any fish thought or known to be collected with cyanide will just get little longer period to "clean out" before being shipped.....
For clarification, I assume that Gresham was referring to the CDT procedure used by the IMA and now by BFAR that was developed by the American Society of Testing and Materials. This is a test for cyanide ion. It involves dissolving the fish in sulfuric acid and using chemicals to remove and/or neutralize potential interfering substances. This is accomplished by vapozing the cyanide as hydrogen cyanide (HCN) gas and recapturing the cyanide in a tube containing sodium hydroxide using a distillation flask and a reflux condenser apparatus.
The uptake and clearance rates for cyanide in marine fishes are unknown. I disagree with some who have stated that cyanide is converted to thiocyanate in the fish in a matter of hours. It has been incorrectly alleged that because the conversion is so rapid it is impossible to detect cyanide ion shortly after the fish were collected. The IMA was able to detect cyanide ion in marine fishes in its laboratories in PI 2 to 3 weeks after they were collected. But, the concentrations were fairly low.
I agree with Gresham that the current CDT probably will not work in the USA to measure cyanide ion, since most of the cyanide by that time is probably in the form of thiocyanate. Hence, for a US test to work it should detect thiocyanate. Whether this is feasible or not remains to be determined. But, you can be sure that the USCRTF is looking into this question.
I don't know enough about the test developed by Dr. Karen Mak and Dr. Renneberg in Hong Kong. It is enzyme based and they claim it is very sensitive. They may try to implement their test both in Asian countries and in the USA.
What will the trade do if CDT becomes mandatory for Certification in the exporting countries? The draft legislation by Congressman Ed Case calls for all fish entering the USA to be Certified.
The uptake and clearance rates for cyanide in marine fishes are unknown. I disagree with some who have stated that cyanide is converted to thiocyanate in the fish in a matter of hours. It has been incorrectly alleged that because the conversion is so rapid it is impossible to detect cyanide ion shortly after the fish were collected. The IMA was able to detect cyanide ion in marine fishes in its laboratories in PI 2 to 3 weeks after they were collected. But, the concentrations were fairly low.
I agree with Gresham that the current CDT probably will not work in the USA to measure cyanide ion, since most of the cyanide by that time is probably in the form of thiocyanate. Hence, for a US test to work it should detect thiocyanate. Whether this is feasible or not remains to be determined. But, you can be sure that the USCRTF is looking into this question.
I don't know enough about the test developed by Dr. Karen Mak and Dr. Renneberg in Hong Kong. It is enzyme based and they claim it is very sensitive. They may try to implement their test both in Asian countries and in the USA.
What will the trade do if CDT becomes mandatory for Certification in the exporting countries? The draft legislation by Congressman Ed Case calls for all fish entering the USA to be Certified.
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