Does the hobby die without FedEx?

[JennM]

Thanks, Thales. You make some valid points - definitely worthy of consideration

You're right in that LA may not be as well known to the casual/beginning hobbyist. However I've seen plenty rush in for perceived cheaper stuff once they do catch wind of it.

I've had noobs try to bring in stuff they bought online when it turned out to be too big, too aggressive or otherwise unsuitable. When they try to dump it on me and expect me to give them a credit, I suggest they take it back to the vendor that sold it to them - guess who? Can't send it back...

LOL without LFS there'd be no dumping ground for all the 'unsatisfactory' but still alive stuff!

Jenn

 

[Race]

Seems odd Jenn. For years you accused me of not getting people interested in the hobby. Now I am selling expensive fish to the noobies.

I really think you should quit shouting opinions and state the facts,--- based on actual experience NOT speculation..

 

[JennM]

Race, I don't think you attract new people into the hobby. I do think you attract a certain amount of novice hobbyists though.

If you paid attention to my posts, you'd understand that

How many new 120-gallon setups do you ship far and wide each week? How about custom installations with basement sumps?

How about how many 37 or 55-g starter sets?

BTW - I don't shout. I don't need to. You corner the market on that

Jenn

 

[Race]

I am quite sure that I sell and cater to far more experienced hobbyists than you do. Far, far more.

Far more entry level too.

So what is your point?

 

[JennM]

I guess you don't wish to answer the question.

You pointed out that I don't believe you attract *new* hobbyists into the hobby. That's correct - I don't believe that you attract new people into the hobby. I contend that your business model is one that feeds off the avails that LFS bring into the hobby.

You asked, I answered. I have answered all your questions truthfully. You don't believe my experience as a hobbyist using an etailer is fair - that's your prerogative. At least I actually *answer* the questions.

Now - it's your turn. How many starter kits or tanks do you ship in a week? You do sell nano tanks and the like... so how many new, never-before hobbyists do you bring into the fold, Race?

It's a simple question... why won't you answer it?

Jenn

 

[Race]

We sell hundreds per week of all sizes. I do not have exact numbers in front of me at the moment. What does that prove by the way?

 

[JennM]

Race,

On page 2 in this thread you said...

And is there any support that my death rates are better or worse than retail. While I was in California and saw retail charge backs for mortality on inbound freight to US retailers, I think that I am doing very well. Remember you have to include shipping carnage to your stores and IN your stores as I include mine in the dropship and the hobbyist's tank and in my facilities.

Those losses and charge backs alone were frightening and the reason why I will not become a Wholesaler. Hopefully all of you guys are honest on these charges backs.

Bottom line--shipping directly to the hobbyists saves lives in my opinion and more than makes up for any uneducated losses. Any Wholesalers want to jump in and compare retail charge backs to my 4.7% overall.

My question to you is this:

If the same wholesalers are shipping to the retail stores and to your customers, using the same sources, same water, same shipping and other variables, then why would your customers' DOA/DAA rates after 14 days be so much less than a retail store? It doesn't make sense. Shouldn't they be the same? Maybe even less for retailers, because they know how to handle and acclimate animals that have been in boxes for a day or more?

I'm sure there are just as many hobbyists with water quality that's as good/bad as there are LFS... so all things being equal, how do you figure that?

I'm scratching my head trying to figure that one out.

Jenn

 

[Race]

Jenn,
After the parasite comment it is best if we part our ways. You have lost all credibility with me and have little experience to back your facts.

Have a nice day-------Race

 

[JennM]

We sell hundreds per week of all sizes. I do not have exact numbers in front of me at the moment. What does that prove by the way?

Well I guess it doesn't since you don't know if you're selling to first-timers, or people looking to add or upgrade

I know how many of my customers are just entering the hobby. Most, if they didn't buy the tank from me, they got it from a friend, family member, another LFS (brick and mortar) or Craigslist or the like.

I can't say as I've EVER had a customer come in and tell me they bought their first tank at F&S or any other etailer.

When I ask my customers what got them interested in the hobby it's always a tank they saw someplace - at a friend's, at a restaurant, a doctor's office... even the occasional public aquarium. Nobody's ever said that they saw a nifty website and decided to take the plunge.

I will say this though - if it ever happens, I promise to tell you about it!

Jenn

 

[JennM]

Jenn,
After the parasite comment it is best if we part our ways. You have lost all credibility with me and have little experience to back your facts.

Have a nice day-------Race

Now Race, aren't you being a bit sensitive? Steve R has used that term in the past... but if you prefer, I'll edit my post and use a more politically correct term.

Of course taking the opportunity at this precise moment to take your toys and go home when pointed questions are being asked, makes for a good exit opportunity doesn't it?

I guess I'll go edit my post before somebody does it for me

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

LOL, I really don't care enough to work up the motivation to find it, but wasn't it not all that long ago that Race was being asked directly if he was dropshipping and couldn't get direct answers? And then it was does he make it known to the customers that he's dropshipping, and still no straight answers. What percentage of sales was coming from tanked, acclimated stock in LA's physical possession....no straight answers. Now it's out there, but for a while someone was dancing really hard.

There was a comment about Race never lieing to a customer. Not saying you ever did. However I see that there's no problem being less than upfront too.

Anyway, doesn't anyone find it ironic? Before it was hush hush and now it's being shouted from every thread how now he's actually doing everyone a favor, iincluding the fish and corals by shipping them ONCE instead of sending them to his store first. Everyone should be happy and jump on board cause this gves the animals a better chance at survival!

Does this mean that the animals shipped and tanked in WI are less healthy and have a poorer shot at survival? You can't have it both ways. If you can still have healthy animals in WI which were shipped there and then again shipped out, why can't a LFS that has theirs shipped in and then bagged for an hour or two before reaching the end tank?

 

[dizzy]

Let me know if there is anything else I can illuminate about my thoughts.

Rich Illuminate on this: If you sell high like you are suggesting LA does. And you hold loses and replacements costs to 4-5%, like Race has told us they do. And you have QM ship the animals to the customers on the customers dime, how does that equate to selling at a loss? Thanks for the illunination in advance.
Mitch

 

[JennM]

And to expand on Mitch's question...

If a LFS buys 3 leopard wrasses, and one perishes (DAA), theoretically what they sell the other 2 for, should make up for the store's loss on the one that didn't make it.

If Race is drop-shipping, presumably he never pays for a DOA or DAA at *his end* because QM or whomever, eats those losses. He's mentioned in the past that he pays "more" for his livestock than retailers do... I guess we have to take his word for that that with all his volume he can't negotiate a better wholesale price *g*... but since he never has a "DAA" to pay for, that translates to more on the bottom line.

Unless he's making crazy good money on the shipping end... none of it makes sense.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Let me know if there is anything else I can illuminate about my thoughts.

Rich Illuminate on this: If you sell high like you are suggesting LA does. And you hold loses and replacements costs to 4-5%, like Race has told us they do. And you have QM ship the animals to the customers on the customers dime, how does that equate to selling at a loss? Thanks for the illunination in advance.
Mitch

I can only tell you what Race has said - the investments into their livestock facilities mean that they are not making profit on livestock sales.

 

[dizzy]

I can only tell you what Race has said - the investments into their livestock facilities mean that they are not making profit on livestock sales.

Rich if you use the proceeds from livestock sales to build a large modern high-tech facility, how is that not profiting? I would simply call that putting the profits back into the business.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

I can only tell you what Race has said - the investments into their livestock facilities mean that they are not making profit on livestock sales.

Rich if you use the proceeds from livestock sales to build a large modern high-tech facility, how is that not profiting? I would simply call that putting the profits back into the business.
Mitch

IIUC, that's not what's happening - the dry goods sales are currently funding the facilities

 

[dizzy]

I can only tell you what Race has said - the investments into their livestock facilities mean that they are not making profit on livestock sales.

Rich they could well be running Live Aquaria like an S Corporation:
An S corporation or S-corp, for United States federal income tax purposes, is a corporation that makes a valid election to be taxed under Subchapter S of Chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code.

In general, an S Corporation does not pay any income taxes. Instead, the corporation's income or losses are divided among and passed through to its shareholders. The shareholders must then report the income or loss on their own individual income tax returns.


The stockholders take home the profit, (and that could be just Race and Marty, and maybe Kevin) and the company is shown to break even on paper. It sounds like they are not making money, but in fact they are. You can fool some of the people all of the time.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

I can only tell you what Race has said - the investments into their livestock facilities mean that they are not making profit on livestock sales.

Rich they could well be running Live Aquaria like an S Corporation:
An S corporation or S-corp, for United States federal income tax purposes, is a corporation that makes a valid election to be taxed under Subchapter S of Chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code.

In general, an S Corporation does not pay any income taxes. Instead, the corporation's income or losses are divided among and passed through to its shareholders. The shareholders must then report the income or loss on their own individual income tax returns.


The stockholders take home the profit, (and that could be just Race and Marty, and maybe Kevin) and the company is shown to break even on paper. It sounds like they are not making money, but in fact they are. You can fool some of the people all of the time.
Mitch

Do you know that is what they are doing?

 

[dizzy]

Rich,
Please note the use of the word "could" from my post. What I've been trying to tell you is the math doesn't appear to add up. When you buy millions of dollars of livestock you don't pay more than the little guy buying a few thousand dollars a year. Good market-up and no freight or DOA/DAA loses should equal good profit, especially if only 4-5% of the stuff you have dropshipped out has to be replaced. I don't get. When you accuse others of being "profiteers" like Race did, it brings scrunity to your own claims of not making profit.

I can only tell you what Race has said - the investments into their livestock facilities mean that they are not making profit on livestock sales.

Rich they could well be running Live Aquaria like an S Corporation:
An S corporation or S-corp, for United States federal income tax purposes, is a corporation that makes a valid election to be taxed under Subchapter S of Chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code.

In general, an S Corporation does not pay any income taxes. Instead, the corporation's income or losses are divided among and passed through to its shareholders. The shareholders must then report the income or loss on their own individual income tax returns.


The stockholders take home the profit, (and that could be just Race and Marty, and maybe Kevin) and the company is shown to break even on paper. It sounds like they are not making money, but in fact they are. You can fool some of the people all of the time.
Mitch

Do you know that is what they are doing?

 

[Anonymous]

Rich,
Please note the use of the word "could" from my post.

Great! I agree, they could, but they could also be doing a million other things. Speculation on how someone is running their business without actually knowing what's going on makes me a little uncomfortable.

What I've been trying to tell you is the math doesn't appear to add up. When you buy millions of dollars of livestock you don't pay more than the little guy buying a few thousand dollars a year. Good market-up and no freight or DOA/DAA loses should equal good profit, especially if only 4-5% of the stuff you have dropshipped out has to be replaced. I don't get. When you accuse others of being "profiteers" like Race did, it brings scrunity to your own claims of not making profit.

That seems to ignore all the expenses of building and running the facility/facilities that Race has talked about. Just like a B&M, those facilities and the expenses of running them cost money and must be factored into the idea of profit.