What could have happened?!

[loismustdie]

How am I contradicting myself?

for starters, post 1 you said the pic was from last night. Now the pic is over 14 days old.
-you said you have a light algae build up on your glass after 7 days and use that as your gauge for water quality, but in your last post, you clean your glass every day. How do you know how much algae is there after 7 days if you clean it every day.
I can give you more examples, or you can read your own posts yourself.
Algae on the glass isn't much of a gauge of how good your water is anyway. My PO4 was so high that a Salifert test kit didn't have a shade of blue dark enough for me to hold it against. At that time, I had a light film of algae every 8 to 10 days that came off with my little algae magnet.
I understand that I may come off as abrasive with you guys. But at least I'm honest with you. I'm also honest with my own screw-ups and failures. I get frustrated with guys who type in circles which is what you're doing here. Again, I'm not trying to bash you. I'm making an observation off of your pictures and time lines which change as you post. You got pissy with Jim when he tried to help you in the past. Now you change your own observations and get mad at me. I'm going to follow Jims advice now and say that it is better for me to not post than it is to post out of frustration. I hope you get the answer you want to hear and it corrects this problem. Disregard my previous posts.
Also, how about a close up of that last pic you posted. More specifically, a pic of the center, about 1 inch up from the bottom. I'll let someone else tell you that you have AEFW. I told you to get it out of the tank and FW dip it... not put it in the fuge.

 

[nyfireman3097]

I dont get it you ask then argue whe someone gives you a awnser
1. Your alk is too high 8-9 dKh is good
2. Where was it you had your water tested at ?
3. Having you alk swinging all the time is horrible for you sps.
4. Doesnt matter if you have it in line by adding it high and letting it drop
DOSING PUMP DOSING PUMP DOSING PUMP
5. Dip the coral and check to see if anything comes off ALOT of these pests are extremely hard to see on the corals.

Good Luck figurering it out

 

[jhale]

it's been said, but I see two possibilities.

high alk, and a constant up and down alk will take out corals very quickly.
this happened to me when I had a CA reactor that was finicky. the alk would drop and I would boost it up, then coral would RTN.

the other thing is the wild colony makes me suspicious of aefw's
did you dip the colony when you got it? qt it at all?
flat worms will mess up a colony given time, it will look okay then take a dive as the worms overpower it. you can't see them on the coral in the water. you will only see them in an iodine based dip as they peel off the coral. then you will see the damage.

also being a wild colony it is not going to be used to your tank parameters.
it is much more fragile than any home grown frag. the alk swings could have easily caused the wild colony to die.

as for the glass cleaning, people are asking about it because having to clean the glass is indicative of water that is not clean. there is Po4 in the water if you have to clean the glass. the level may be low, you would have to use a colorimeter to detect it, but it's enough to make a difference.

 

[scumonkey]

for starters, post 1 you said the pic was from last night. Now the pic is over 14 days old.

I just used that pic cause the coral looked the same last night, and it's a pain to post new ones. I just used it to illustrate a before and after point. I NEVER said I took the picture last night!I just wanted to show how it looked before I went to bed

you said you have a light algae build up on your glass after 7 days and use that as your gauge for water quality, but in your last post, you clean your glass every day. How do you know how much algae is there after 7 days if you clean it every day.

I NEVER said I use this as a way to gauge water quality!
I use Salifert test kits (everyday) and send my water to a lab every now and then.
I also NEVER said I was cleaning algae off the glass!
I'm cleaning snail eggs off the glass- not algae! I'm not scraping every square inch of glass- just the eggs.
Yes I have to clean algae off as well ,but only every other week or so- who doesn't?! It is not growing on my rocks or sand either- I did have an algae problem about 2 months ago I'll admit it,(before I got this coral)-but not anymore!
Also-I find that the Salifert test kits for PO4 -suck, but when I did use a Sailfert PO4 kit it showed nothing....That's one reason why I try to get my water checked out in a lab (my roommate does it for me - he works for the EPA), now and again- cause I can!
I know I don't have a PO4 problem - unless my roommate is a worthless lab tech!
This is the one thing I'm sure your wrong about. Now You could be on to something with the ALK, I'll allow it to come down and see....But I would think it would have affected my other Acros as well (and I've had them for a while now), maybe not?
I don't dose all at one time.... every other hour in small amounts- every day.Also I'm NOT dismissing your advice- just the PO4 as culprit part.

Also, how about a close up of that last pic you posted. More specifically, a pic of the center, about 1 inch up from the bottom. I'll let someone else tell you that you have AEFW. I told you to get it out of the tank and FW dip it... not put it in the fuge.

I did give it a FW dip like you suggested ..... THEN i put it into my fuge -when nothing came off and I noticed it still had colour and tissue on the other side. What was I supposed to do with it- leave it on the counter?
I know what Acro Eating Flatworms look like. I know they are hard to see- I looked and saw none- I could have missed them BUT I don't think so...here is your pic- if you see them-SHOW ME!

You got pissy with Jim when he tried to help you in the past. Now you change your own observations and get mad at me.

I don't know who "JIM" is...unless (and I'm guessing) it's cali_reef?
I have (as far as I know) only had cali (if that's jim) post to me in two threads- one about flow from a modded maxijet(ages ago), and last night about using a UV.
Cali did NOT answer my question about UV- just posted some info I wasn't asking about - and the other time we disagreed- on how much flow you get with a modded maxi - how is that getting "Pissy"?
I never posted anything that said I was mad at either of you.
I did nay your PO4 comment cause I know that's not it!
I think YOU have just misunderstood me?
I never dismissed anything you said in any of your posts(except for the PO4 part). Hell- I was even following your advise on lowering the Alk, and removing and dipping the coral!

 

[nanoreefer22]

Again scu you're disagreeing with yourself; earlier you said, "My water quality is about as good as you can get! I don't have any kind of algae problems- it even takes over a week before I can see any kind of film on the glass... so i'm sure I don't have excess nutrients." and now you say "I NEVER said I use this--algae on the glass--as a way to gauge water quality!"

Not picking at ya, but stick to one story....

-Kris

 

[scumonkey]

nanoreefer22
What are you talking about?
How am I disagreeing with myself? Where does the different story come in?
My water quality is very good.....I don't have an algae problem....and I don't use algae on the glass as a way to gauge water quality!
Please explain yourself!

 

[nanoreefer22]

Just forget it, I'll drop it. It's really self-explanitory.
-Kris

 

[cali_reef]

How did i get involved in this?? Dude, if you don't want people to give their answer or opinion, don't post your questions.:tired:

People who had experienced similar issue only try to help you with what they think is the problem, you kept discounting their post. Why do you think your coral is dead if your water is "perfect"?

 

[jhale]

okay, getting past the Po4 levels, that would not be the cause anyway.
the levels would have to be extremly high to effect the sps.

it is most likely the alk swings, or flatworms.

you really can't see the flatworms on the coral, even out of the water.
what you can see are telltale bite marks on the coral, tiny little white spots. also the coral will turn brown. you might see eggs, but even they are tough to spot.

to test for worms frag off an effected part of the coral and dip it in RO water, the worms if there are any, will fall off the coral and explode. you will know in less than 30 seconds of a FW dip if there are aefw's on a colony.

 

[loismustdie]

the purple coral behind the green milli is dying in this picture. It's now completely dead. After this one died, a coral on the other side of my tank did the same.It didn't start until all the tissue was gone on the purple one. RTN, loss of PE, dead with in days. This was all around the time my son was born and I wasn't testing. As the second coral was dying, I tested and saw my alk was over 12. Dropped my levels down and all was good. Alkalinity effects different corals different ways.
All other corals in the pic are now twice the size that they were in this photo. With even bolder colors.
I'm really not going to post here anymore. You seem to have a way with pissing people off. I wasn't talking about Cali and you got him involved. I shouldn't have involved Jim's name. Don't ask questions if you don't want answers. Once again, we give answers, but when they are not the answer the person asking wants to hear, you get defensive and mad.
If someone with 2 months in the hobby told you... "it's all good. Just a bad coral... you'll be fine" will you then be happy? Or you can take the advice of guys who, never mind how long they've been in the hobby, but actually EXPERIENCED the exact same thing.
picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[scumonkey]

How did i get involved in this??

I was asking loismustdie if the "Jim" he was talking about in an earlier post was you....as I don't know anybody named Jim- is your name Jim- if not- I still don't know who he's talking about, and you needn't worry?!
What is going on here......?
I never asked anybody to keep their opinions or answers to themselves!
I NEVER said my water quality is PERFECT !
I NEVER discounted anybody's post !
I only discounted a possible high po4 problem as culprit.... nothing else.
In a few of the above posts a lot of words were put in my mouth that I NEVER said and, I felt I had to try and clear that up!
I never told anybody they were wrong about their alk suspicions, possable flatworms, getting a doser ,or any other advice.
Jhale has been VERY helpful- and I respect the knowledge he deals out!
I am taking the advice on lowering the alk-I removed the coral from the tank, did a FW dip as louismustdie suggested- saw nothing suspicious (no exploding-no eggs) and placed the coral in my fuge till I figure out what else to do.
Why am I receiving so much grief?

 

[lfsmarineguy]

SPS can color up as a stress response prior to death. Has anything been added recently livestock wise? Have filters been changed? Has anything been dosed directly prior? That alk reading is high but I doubt that if it was high for awhile that is the sole cause if a cause at all. It may be a shut down response brought on by a prolonged stress you were unaware of. With SPS you can have a tank full of corals doing great and out of nowhere a coral just "craps out" on you. They are very sensitive and there is no way to know exactly what pathogens are in our tank. Could also try an iodine dip with Lugol's solution. I have brought back many frags with that stuff from what seemed like the end (Iodine is a powerful astringent as well as having other helpful qualities for corals).

 

[Josh]

It looks like an alk reaction from the photo.

 

[jhale]

oh I missed that the whole coral was dipped in FW.
given the state of the coral it might not be strong enough to survive that, but you never know.
If there are no flatworms then the alk levels will be the culprit.
It's very important for SPS to keep the levels constant, as you now know.

At this point I don't know if being in the fuge is necessary. if there's a healthy branch left I would frag a few pieces and hope they make it.

 

[scumonkey]

Ok - high Alk then seems to be the culprit. Time to make adjustments.
So when keeping calcium at 450 , even though the chemistry calculator
says balanced alk should be 4.45 that's too high. What would be considered an optimum level... 10-11dkh ?
Where does the "too high" number start and, what should be considered the first "too low" number?

 

[nyfireman3097]

8-9 dKh

 

[lfsmarineguy]

10-12dkh is accepted range for reef tanks little higher or lower isn't something to freak over though. 3.5 is meq/l I believe or close to it. I use dkh it's easier.

 

[scumonkey]

8-9 dKh....really....that low?!?

 

[jhale]

I do not think it was the amount the alk was at.

I believe it was the slight swings you were having.
Buffering it up everyday would stress the coral after a while.
Especially a new one just placed into that environment. Coming from a stable environment it would not be able to deal with it as well as a coral
that grew from a frag in your tank.

I find it interesting that Acropras are much tougher than we think, sometimes. I think it's what they are used to that is more important.
For example getting exposed to the blazing sun everyday during a low tide is not something we would subject our tanks too, but there are corals that go through those extremes and do just fine.

 

[nyfireman3097]

http://ozreef.org/library/tables/natural_sea_water_composition.html
http://ozreef.org/library/tables/alkalinity_conversion.html
http://ozreef.org/content/view/162/28/
http://ozreef.org/library/articles/alkalinity.html