Refugiums

ming

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I would say what dgthrasher did, worked on his tank of softies, but there are a number of things I would do differently because I dont think it would work on most setups. Although I would also say it wasn't the most glamorous setup either, but could be because the algae growing all over the front glass I was staring at.

I think refugiums which are setup properly allows the tank to be more forgiving in husbandry, but there are a good number of refugiums which are not set up to be efficient, or the reefer may think there is no limit to the forgivness, which are both bad.

That being said, nobody's perfect and everybody has their own ways of reefing, and do whatever works for you. I know I'm guilty to some point of not doing the things I say, but I only allow it to go so far before I make amends.
 

loismustdie

chicks dig beckett men
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2400 people on this site. Giving Eric and Lissa the benefit of the doubt (I've seen pics of Lissa's tank and going off of Eric's pic which is fairly new) and letting Ming use the term "Refugium With Coral"... 4 people managed to post nice tanks with fuges.
I disagree with Fred 1,000,000%. However... I can't take my eyes off of your avitar. I don't get the stirring in my pants that I get from Lazyreerfers avitar, yet I still can't take my eyes off it.
The guy who said I don't know anything about fuges doesn't have any pics on MR.
If I found dgthrashers tank on my living room floor, I would hit my dog on the nose with a newspaper. I stand by the fact that poor husbandry is to blame for this. Not the fuge, but the fuge obviously didn't help as much as he thinks it did (see Fritz post, and my arguement against fuges from day 1)
Until we reassess refugiums, we will continue with parroted misinformation. These things along with culerpa and cheato are being sold like crazy to new reefers. So we will deal with the same questions and problems over and over again in the noob forum. And as long as people claim success without producing proof, for some reason, people will believe them.
Keep all the LPS, zoas and shrooms you want. If your glass is all green, sand is all brown and you have a drab looking tank, you will not be happy and your tank is NOT THRIVING.
Moral of the story:
The room and energy can be put to better use.
unless someone else can post some pics...:dead:
 
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jhale

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I'm out of town with no new tank shots to post, and I have not taken a pic of the fuge area of my sump for a long time. it's packed with cheato so there's not much to see. I'll see what I can find photowise. The fts in my "my tank" page might be the last fts I have. that was maybe a month ago.
And Ming that's a great softie tank you have, but it's no fuge :Blurp:
you need more algae than open space for it to be a fuge in my book.
come to think of it I don't want to call my fuge a fuge after the definition Fred posted. I'm going to call my "fuge" area an organic filtration treatment plant ( O.F.T.P ), or a sewage treatment center as Chris might call it :lol: :D
 

jhale

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here's the last fts I found, I took it on 3/25/07.
I don't think it proves much, as I've stated before I don't know how much my "fuge" area is really doing. It's about 20 gallons out of 150 total.
I do think it's helping keep the nitrates down, but I'm not going to pull it out to test that theory ;)

fts2.jpg
 

jhale

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one more note, I have not ever weighed my cheato, but I bet it's quite a bit, there's a mass of it from wall to wall, top to bottom.
if anyone needs some let me know. pods included.

:dead1:
 

jhale

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We're still waiting on the 250's to ship :arg: (new skimmer for those that don't know)
The tank might be moving in 3 months (with me) I'll remove the fuge and give the cheato away then. I might even go back to BB :scratchch (turn up the vortechs, with controller?)

I think fuges do help if set up properly, but like mentioned, they are not a crutch for sloppy maintenance. one day I'd like to have a remote dsb tank with cheato equal to or greater than the main tank.
 

loismustdie

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2400 people on this site. Giving Eric and Lissa the benefit of the doubt (I've seen pics of Lissa's tank and going off of Eric's pic which is fairly new) and letting Ming use the term "Refugium With Coral"... 4 people managed to post nice tanks with fuges.
I disagree with Fred 1,000,000%. However... I can't take my eyes off of your avitar. I don't get the stirring in my pants that I get from Lazyreerfers avitar, yet I still can't take my eyes off it.
The guy who said I don't know anything about fuges doesn't have any pics on MR.
If I found dgthrashers tank on my living room floor, I would hit my dog on the nose with a newspaper. I stand by the fact that poor husbandry is to blame for this. Not the fuge, but the fuge obviously didn't help as much as he thinks it did (see Fritz post)
Until we reassess refugiums, we will continue with parroted misinformation. These things along with culerpa and cheato are being sold like crazy to new reefers. So we will deal with the same questions and problems over and over again in the noob forum. And as long as people claim success without producing proof, for some reason, people will believe them.
Keep all the LPS, zoas and shrooms you want. If your glass is all green, sand is all brown and you have a drab looking tank, you will not be happy and your tank is NOT THRIVING.
Moral of the story:
The room and energy can be put to better use.
unless someone else can post some pics...:dead:
Honest man. Nice clams too.:dead:
 
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Pseudo

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If the discussion here cannot be civil I will have to close the thread. All opinions are welcome here. Not everyones methods are correct and no one person has all the answers to sucessful reefkeeping. Read other comments and sucess stories and decide for yourself what you want to take from each experience and enjoy the hobby.

Kasei
 

smoknreefrs

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I see you are fairly new to the site. You may not know about some of what has gone on and things from other threads which led to this one. It is a topic of discussion. Obviously by your response, I feel that you do not understand what is being said.
I'm not being argumentative either. This is a discussion forum. We are having a discussion. Before you critique me, you may want to get to know me first. Everything is all cool here before you walked in calling people silly.
If you would go to your mom and have her explain to you that my argument here is that fuges have very little impact on ones tank. As in my other post, I said that the room being used for fuges as well as time and maintenance, can be put towards better stuff which actually does have an impact. My silly statement of fuges and maintenance was just my way of saying fuges aren't all bad. There is better stuff out there though. They have their application and that it is a combination of techniques.
As you are here longer and go through more threads, you will see many noob's having problems and they run fuges. Guys in the advanced forums, don't have these problems and find fuges pointless and don't use them.
You will also see people correcting PO4 issues simply by removing fuges. Many of us have gotten away from Salifert PO4 kits and went Hanna. Can you say H-A-N-N-A? These are more accurate kits which are geared towards those who keep more difficult stuff and the term "I can tell what is wrong with my tank by looking at it" (like noobies frequently do), just isn't good enough. Most who ran fuges and actually tested (many don't) they found the parroted response of "I have a fuge, my PO4 and NO3 are low"... to be false.
Rather than coming in here and telling me how silly I am and how great fuges are, why not become part of the discussion and tell us about your experiences? My point in posting here was for people to prove me wrong about fuges. Would you like to do it? I'd be happy to see the pics.
This is a discussion. Please feel free to be a part of it.
you would add a disclaimer saying you arent being argumentive, if in fact you didnt feel that your words would cause an argument.

i am not new to the hobby or to the site per se, i have been following many threads, and just recently joined in the past few months. i just dont post much.

i refuse to have pi$$ing contests, or to prove or disprove anything, and ive been using hanna looooooong before you guys group buys of the kit and not just the few that are mentioned in this forum (i have a hook). in addition i have no drive to prove you wrong or any one else for that matter. those who have fuges and were successful in doing keeping them, already know the benefit fo having one. ill let those people who arent "noobs:biglaugh:" chime in, then maybe their words will be heard instead of scorn.

if my previous post were taken to heart i apologize, those were not my intentions.:hug:
 

Dace

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Chris i just posted pics of my DT. i'll post pics in a few.
Lissa: doesn't count. No FTS. I do like your little set up though and for your purposes (small tank with a few fish who benefit from pods), that may be a very good use of space for you.
Eric: Doesn't count. Needs to be an updated FTS. I know by your livestock, that is not an updated photo. That was when you first set up the tank. ANYONE can have a nice tank for a few months. It's longevity that matters.
Ming: that is not a refugium. That is a reef with algae in it. Either way, beautiful. Interesting tanks.
Dgthrasher: I got nothing for you. I will not blame your fuge for that mess. I'd blame poor husbandry and lack of water changes.
1 nice tank is all we got in 24 + hours.
:dead: and so are fuges.
 

Dace

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Honestly Lissa, those who use a fuge and have good husbandry practices, have nice tanks. Those who don't, don't.
I feel fuges (in your application) are pretty good, but overall, have little impact on water quality when properly set up, but have bad drawbacks when improperly set/maintained or as Wingo brought up... crashes.
All i keep in my tank is cheatos to avoid any type of crash or sexual peoblems
 
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jhale

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Who uses refugiums? For what purpose(s) (pods, nitrate export, place to keep naughty fish, second tank)? How have you set them up? Do you think it's been a benefit or detriment to your system? I've noticed a lot of discussion of fuges in other threads and thought it might be worthwhile to have a thread about them in and of itself.
Let's shift this back to answering Lissa's original questions. :tub:
 

fritz

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As a side note when Frener and company started preaching the good of fuges they were talking about LARGE fuges. At least 50% of your total system volume being a dedicated fuge. John, yours would not qualify in fact they would say "better than nothing but I doubt it will have much of an impact"
(wetwebmedia.com)

To use a sump that is 30% of your display and section a part of that off as a fuge just isn't what they were advocating. They were advocating very large fuges, or at best swap your sump and your display! Use your display as a fuge and turn your sump into your display. (I call that cheating, but it works)

Adding a fuge that is 5%-20% of your total volume won't have much of an impact. They're great for growing pods and other such things. John, I believe Calfo said algae should be harvested weekly (or bi-weekly maybe) for best effect. You don't want the algae to grow so abundant that it starts to lack in resources. It should always be "behind the curve" so to speak.

Also the sand bed in your fuge should be more than 5 inches deep people! More than 8 would be even better and make sure it's abundant with life. You don't need sand sifters but there should be TONS of worms and other such animals turning that over and going through it constantly. Remember this is a refugium so there shouldn't be anything in there that is eating them, they should multiply like crazy.
 

jhale

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:sad2: okay at least I have a 8" DSB

Like other apartment living people I don't have the room for a 120 gallon fuge. well I would but it would take up some living space.

I wonder would a second tank filled with a DSB and turtle grass qualify as a fuge? it could be a second biotope tied into a SP.S dominant tank.
Kind of what ming tried but just with more algae. you could keep pipefish in it, I bet you would never have to feed the tank.
 

lunner

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I restart a mixed reef (SPS dominate from frags) for almost 9 months now and setup a sump/fudge since the beginning. I think there are many ways to setup a fuge with different sizes for difference purpose. Since my tank is Fairy Wrasses dominate, I used mine for pods/food growth. I do water changes (10-20%) at least once a month, usually twice a month.

Before I trim back this weekend:


After Trim: (Fairy Wrasse waiting for pickup today & LR in bucket.)


Tank 4-7-07:

Tank 2-25-07


Some SPS:


 

ccr

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I am out of the house at the moment. I will post a picture later.

I will start with a simple statement. A refugium is not a substitute for good husbandry. I have heard folks out there with apparent success and little water change. I would not suggest it for the masses. If the stars align for a lucky few, I am happy for them. I went through a period of a few months with no water change and my chemistry went awry; nitrates when up and I had an aptasia bloom. It took me two months to get my levels down and eliminate the aptasia. I am back o regular water changes.

I have a 30 gallon breeder with a large CPR hang-on refugium. I have been maturing my sand and rock for 12 months with no fish or corals. I suppose you would call my entire system a refugium. That will change this year.

I keep chaetomorpha in the CPR hang-on, running a reverse light cycle. I have many (1/4" size) snails, all from reproduction in the tank along with about a dozen small hermits and 3 nassarius snails. My nitrates are zero, but my phosphates are elevated (1 ppm). Since this number has risen lately, I retested my tap water - 3ppm from the tap. I have to conclude my tank is acting as a phosphate reducer - my tank has a lower phosphate level than my tap water. I will now have to treat my water to reduce phospates before the water goes into the tank.

Some future plans - I will be upgrading to a 40 gallon breeder, adding a 35 gallon sump (that will include a 18 gallon 6" DSB fuge compartment). I also plan to add a second tank with rock and some sand. Primarily for pod development and because I like rockscaping.
 

danny

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fuges

my experience, pardon me if I mispell, food & jameson whiskey makes hard to type. I had a 120 RR tank with a 60gal fuge(mangrove plants per Marrone) I had only 3 fish in the tank, small yellow tang,madarin & six-line wrasse. I never fed the tank in 2 years, pods,worms etc. here's the killer no skimming. corals grew at a faster rate than in my berlin method tank.
no algae break outs because no food to decay.

low bioload means it can work.

danny
 

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