Unlimited Edition

[Alfredo De La Fe]

The comparison to Comic Books is not quite valid. Comic Book values dropped for many reasons:

1. Counterfeit comic books were hitting the market.
2. eBay created a venue where individuals could suddenly become comic book "dealers" and dealers could no longer hide the fact that what they were selling as "rare" was, in fact, common as dirt.
3. Video games really took off in the 90's and 99% of kids and teens preferred video games to comics and baseball cards.

With corals we have a market that is still pretty isolated. Most reef keepers do not belong to sites such as MR nor are they members of organizations such as the Brooklyn Aquarium Society. Also, I really do not think that the "odd" colors we are seeing are very common in the wild.

I used to receive hundreds of acro and monti colonies directly from the Indo Pacific and MAYBE one out of 50 was not brown or yellow. We are fortunate in that Australia has recently opened up and we are seeing a lot of choice specimens for two very good reasons- the amount they are permitted to sell is VERY limited,thus they are more selective in what they collect and sell so that they can charge a premium and second, they are are also shipped directly to NY and are treated with much more TLC than the stuff coming in from Fiji and the rest of the South Pacific. (If you saw how corals came in from these places it may bring tears to your eyes)

"Rare" corals will continue to be rare for one simple reason- the majority of reef keepers do not have the conditions in their aquariums to keep the vibrant colors that make them rare. (Mostly incredibly strong lighting)

Alfred

This is EXACTLY what happened to comic book collecting in the early 1990's...and a few years later, people were sitting with comic books that were worth pennies on the dollar because the flame burned out.

It seems that the cycle in this hobby is much shorter. Fortunately, I have met vendors and hobbyists that have things that are currently "hot" that don't really mind throwing in some stuff for $10 a frag...that's right, $10 for chalice frags that I have seen people selling for $100 per eye, or mouth, or whatever we call them these days.

I guess my point is that if you want a nice tank, buy and put whatever you want in it, but spend wisely...and, most importantly, be nice to people in the hobby.

 

[NYreefNoob]

and 2 weeks from now this thread will be dead and all will be back to normal. no one or no site will ever change the way the hobby has went, as more and more people get involved in anything, the situation changes, never agreed with the saying all men are created equal, were not. nor are our individual intentions or purposes in life. if i put a single brown paly as a joke f\s on ebay for $200 and someone bought it, dont you think id try again ? as long as people are willing to pay, people will charge. anyone who has been to my house or i have dealt with knows how i am with pricing and giving, thats me though. Don't expect all people to be the same. i've seen the change in this site over the last few years and there are still a few good hobbist on here, few good business'. i always tell people i deal with my inner circle of friends and who are just good people. alot of others as well but as my favoite saying " wish you were closer " i'm sure id find alot more good people in the hobby, dont expect and you wont be dissapointed

 

[Chraddam]

and 2 weeks from now this thread will be dead and all will be back to normal. no one or no site will ever change the way the hobby has went

You may be right, but I will continue to do it the way I am comfortable with. If a hobby turns into a business, it loses all its' flavor to me.

Btw-how is that major tankbuild going? Did you get started yet?

 

[James]

and 2 weeks from now this thread will be dead and all will be back to normal.

When were things not normal ? hehe. This thread has merely served as a reminder to those who remember that the current cycle of the hobby is not the way things always were. I agree with your assessment, if people are willing to pay super high prices, people will be there to charge them. As has been said before, there are plenty of us who do not operate this way, it is up to the individual to decide who they associate with.

James

 

[FaviaFreak]

no disrespect to anyone but these types of threads do nothing but lead to bickering and bitterness

 

[James]

no disrespect to anyone but these types of threads do nothing but lead to bickering and bitterness

None taken. This thread has had lots of goodwill, there has been very little bickering for so many replies (respectful disagreement, sure) and I don't know if bitter is the right word at all, some people are just fed up. Bitterness implies envy and cynicism and I think this thread has been pretty much devoid of those things. I hope I'm still invited to your shop, it really is spectacular and I only wish it had more of a high traffic area storefront so that you could get some new people into reefing. I've been thinking about those orange turbos for a minute now... mmm snails.

James

 

[Wes]

It's capitalism. The market determines price. High demand low supply inflates the price.

As the hype dies down and more and more people are selling frags, the price falls


Sent from my iPhone using Reefs

 

[sharkbait69]

no disrespect to anyone but these types of threads do nothing but lead to bickering and bitterness

I don't think so. Its a reminder to reefers. Business is business and the hobby is the hobby.
I have meet really nice people and have a made a lot of friends from this hobby.
Bickering is all part of the game of message boards. Some just take to a new level and try and attack other members opinions. Bitterness...... well maybe. Bitterness toward people who take advantage of people. Sure, I?m not exactly fond of people who try and take advantage of people.
I think Sanjay said it best.

Unfortunately, it becomes a pyramid scheme with the ones on top reaping the benefits.

Personally, I never thought of it this way. I truly believe that quote really does hit the nail. We all can fall prey to the hype.

 

[sharkbait69]

It's capitalism. The market determines price. High demand low supply inflates the price.

As the hype dies down and more and more people are selling frags, the price falls


Sent from my iPhone using Reefs

lol and look where capitalism got this country. Not that i think capitalism is bad, but i do feel some type of check and balance is needed. Dont know how, but something needs to keep greed in check.

 

[FaviaFreak]

Of course your always welcomed into the store!

None taken. This thread has had lots of goodwill, there has been very little bickering for so many replies (respectful disagreement, sure) and I don't know if bitter is the right word at all, some people are just fed up. Bitterness implies envy and cynicism and I think this thread has been pretty much devoid of those things. I hope I'm still invited to your shop, it really is spectacular and I only wish it had more of a high traffic area storefront so that you could get some new people into reefing. I've been thinking about those orange turbos for a minute now... mmm snails.

James

 

[FaviaFreak]

It's just a fact of life, especially in America, if you want something nice your gonna have to pay for it, why should the reefing hobby be different from any other hobby that's out there? Maybe at one point in time, before the explosion in popularity of the reefing hobby with the advent of the nano reef, which in turn made the hobby affordable to just about everyone, things were different, there was more of a sense of community and reefers traded high end corals more freely amongst themselves and charged less for frags. Times change, things change, people change, I totally understand peoples feelings, I too am a hobbyist but I also understand not everything stays the same

 

[Wes]

It's capitalism. The market determines price. High demand low supply inflates the price.

As the hype dies down and more and more people are selling frags, the price falls


Sent from my iPhone using Reefs

lol and look where capitalism got this country. Not that i think capitalism is bad, but i do feel some type of check and balance is needed. Dont know how, but something needs to keep greed in check.

Capitalism built this country. Anyway, the checks and balance is simple economics. Nobody is getting rich off $200 chalice frags. If the supply was that abundant, the price would be less. People pay those prices because they are not that easy to obtain just yet. Be patient and the price will drop.

I paid about $100 for a Tyree pink lemonade frag a couple years ago. Today you can find them for $20.

It happens with every "hot" coral. As more people get them and grow them, the availability increases exponentially.

I paid $400 for my iPhone when it came out. Now the better 3G version is $99. I could go on and on.

Sent from my iPhone using Reefs

 

[NYreefNoob]

+1
it's called the jones,

 

[Quang]

At the end of the day, I would like hobbyists to be generous to each other, and leave the price mark-ups for vendors/stores whom do so to stay in business.

 

[sharkbait69]

At the end of the day, I would like hobbyists to be generous to each other, and leave the price mark-ups for vendors/stores whom do so to stay in business.

that would be nice.

 

[sharkbait69]

Capitalism built this country. Anyway, the checks and balance is simple economics. Nobody is getting rich off $200 chalice frags. If the supply was that abundant, the price would be less. People pay those prices because they are not that easy to obtain just yet. Be patient and the price will drop.

I paid about $100 for a Tyree pink lemonade frag a couple years ago. Today you can find them for $20.

It happens with every "hot" coral. As more people get them and grow them, the availability increases exponentially.

I paid $400 for my iPhone when it came out. Now the better 3G version is $99. I could go on and on.

Sent from my iPhone using Reefs

ok wait. I agree with the whole 'keeping up with the Jones' and the ?flavor of the month? but no one is getting rich off a chalice??? Maybe before the designer name thing came about. Now, the collectors are scoring a pretty penny for some of these colorful coral.
When the chalice was just a 4? green w/red chalice and not the flavor of the month it might have been 32 bucks wholesale but now give it a name like bleeding alien flesh and boom its now a 100 piece. While some islander popped it off the rocks with an old spackle knife got 50 cents.
Yeah, yeah. Its called business I know, well aware of it. To say no one is getting rich, come on.
lets say a coral cost a retailer 150 dollars to have the coral in the display tank. I see more and more retailers are fragging the coral straight out the box to flip that coral quicker. Not a bad idea at all. But to turn around and bang each frag for 100-150 seems to me like self inflating the market also.

 

[dickenscd]

Supply and demand, the 2 invisible hands will decide the price; and any effort to change this market rule will be in vain.

I don?t see the problem for hobbyists selling frags to support the hobby, but if they decide to turn the hobby into business, I hope they know it?s not easy to make a buck from this business, and what you have gained may not offset what you have lost.

James

 

[Wes]

ok wait. I agree with the whole 'keeping up with the Jones' and the ?flavor of the month? but no one is getting rich off a chalice??? Maybe before the designer name thing came about. Now, the collectors are scoring a pretty penny for some of these colorful coral.
When the chalice was just a 4? green w/red chalice and not the flavor of the month it might have been 32 bucks wholesale but now give it a name like bleeding alien flesh and boom its now a 100 piece. While some islander popped it off the rocks with an old spackle knife got 50 cents.
Yeah, yeah. Its called business I know, well aware of it. To say no one is getting rich, come on.
lets say a coral cost a retailer 150 dollars to have the coral in the display tank. I see more and more retailers are fragging the coral straight out the box to flip that coral quicker. Not a bad idea at all. But to turn around and bang each frag for 100-150 seems to me like self inflating the market also.

that's not how it works. You can't just buy a chalice from a wholesaler chop it up and sell frags for $100. The expensive chalice frags are expensive because it is very rare for that particular color morph to come in.

Chalice frags aren't expensive because they have names. The rare ones that are desireable get named and are expensive because everyone wants a piece of it. Noone is getting rich off chalice frags, period.

You can spend thousands and thousands on importing chalices from collector and only find a couple so extraordinary that people are willing to pay $150 a frag.

 

[knugenx]

Nothing is worse than selling something you got for free at market price!

 

[dickenscd]

Nothing is worse than selling something you got for free at market price!

I agree.

I will feel very bad if I know someone is reselling my donated item which they got it free, or buy the items at club auctions at very low price for reselling purpose.


James