Are grow out forums permitted here

[gonewild34]

i am in a growout right now on reef2reef and what everybody is saying is true if the tank crashes were out the money it stinks but it is a chance you take all i can say is keep the growout small 4 to 5 poeple and try to get faster growin corals and try to get people you now and that are close to you just incase something happens that you have a backup tank to put them in that are in the growout. the growout i am in all live within 20 mins of each other. when i did a growout i cut the chalices as soon as i could and got a frag into another tank that was in the growout just as a backup. all the growouts i have been in have worked great. but i have notice when you get more then 4 or 5 people it falls apart. so if you decied to do a growout good luck and hope it goes well

 

[LongIslandAndy]

from where i sit, this whole idea sums up pretty much everything wrong with the hobby today--- corals as trophy acquisitions with value determined by fancy names and false rarity. My challenge to you all--- buy corals you like and can afford and then grow them until the colonies are big enough that when you frag them you don't notice they have been fragged. There really are ways to enjoy this hobby without the compulsion to buy, collect and frag without end.

+1000000

 

[Nassau]

+1000001

 

[AsphaltPays]

I'm in on a grow out...

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[Josh]

I personally have a lot of problems with this.

First of all, none of the people involved has the money to buy the frag by itself. Obviously each of you agree that it is not worth $1000. Based on your math, in 6 months you have 4 frags which you can then sell for $4000. If that was indeed the case, you should not share the frag, you should get it for yourself. If you share the frag you can't get 4 frags until a year from now (after 6 months you get your frag and after 12 months you have your own 4 frags). So no one obviously wants to pay $1000 for the frag because of the inherent risk.

Now, if it is not worth $1000, why is everyone who pitches these things always reminding us that we can sell our frag for $1000? If that is the case, then no one is actually planning on growing out the coral, they are just in it to get their hands on it and charge the next guy $1000. So the whole thing only works if you're not the sucker holding the bag. That is the definition of a ponzi scheme.

The market for corals extremely small, and there is a huge amount of risk in doing this. Let's say another coral stings it or falls on it. You think you're going to be friends with the guy after that? If you are so confident in the sure fire return, you buy the coral yourself or at a minimum give everyone in the group insurance or their money back at any time. Anything else and you're trying to get something with a lower risk than what you bought.

There are a bunch of websites that specialize in these sorts of deals. The people who wanted them here know where to go to find them and know that there are indeed a bunch of people there willing to get involved in something like this.

Lastly, nothing is worth it until you pay for it. The second you buy a frag for $1000 you just reinforced the price and relieved the pressure on the seller to get rid of it. Honestly, those guys are laughing it up when they find someone to buy a $1000 frag, it just confirms that their gamble paid off and they'll try it again.

Corals are expensive, and I understand that there are indeed market forces causing prices to be in the hundreds of dollar range for a colony. But $1000 for a single frag? Who do you think is really making out on this deal, the buyer or the seller?

 

[rookie07]

+1

The corals with the $1000+ price tag do not follow the supply/demand priciple that is the foundation of capitalism. It is just stupidity that allows the price to remain at those levels.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Again the purchase of the frag would fall under the sites group buy rules. Please see the thread in thw group buy forum for the rules. All group buy/shared shipping requests require approval from the mods. Thank you for your cooperation. Happy reefing.

 

[reefmaniac]

I don't know of to many corals that go for 1000 a frag, I have only heard of a hand full and most of those are now a lot cheaper. But as for the Group Buy, I say play at your own risk, you know if you are not the person growing it out then you have no control. If it does die or something goes wrong you can't really blame the grower. After all everyone in the group would have to agree on the grower in the first place. But people still go to Vegas planning on winning it big, but how many really do?

 

[tosiek]

You guys realize that working an extra 15 mins to half hour a day for 6 months would net you more cash than going through all this? And you don't have to worry about something dying or other people trying to screw you.

There are better ways you could invest that money and make more over the same period of time. If it was a 700$-3k quick flip over a week or two I would say go for it, but then you wouldnt make the money because everyone is doing it too.

I can see the value of 5 people going in on an expensive frag pack to keep in their tanks but this is an "I think I can strike it rich" deal.

Also, I am certain that the "grower" on the other site isn't taking a cut from the pie for electric use and maintenance fee's. People doing this just aren't that smart =0) That 6 month old frag from the grower would be worth double/triple if that was all accounted for.

 

[Mattl22]

For me it has absolutely nothing to do with money just a chance to get really nice coral let's be totally honest the designer coral is really colorful and nice I wouldn't be in a group buy for 1000$ but 200$ to get really nice palys or sps and I'm in


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[rookie07]

I just looked at sexycorals.com Hahahahahahahah....the prices on that site are very high. $130 per eye of Miami Hurricane! $200 per eye for WT Raging River Chalice- a chalice that manhattan aquariums sold for $150 for a 3"x3" colony!

What a rip that site is!

INNEED you continually amaze me!


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[reefmaniac]

Or you could just do like I do and wait until you find a great deal. I bought a certain acan that at the time I had no clue it was worth anything more than just an acan price. Now I see a certain site selling the same identical acan for 399.00 for a 3/4" x 3/4" frag. I already have a guy trying to buy my entire colony of it for 500.00. I might do it just to get some new AI sol LEDS.

 

[INNEED]

well yeah there are other ways of getting the coral doesnt mean am going along with sexy corals.....theres also alot of ppl on r2r selling the chalices at a good price for example a jason fox on sc would go for 1050 n nicks387 on r2r has it for 425 would do some more research b4 i put a group buy together......but as for ur smart comment u should have kept it to ur self "INNEED you continually amaze me!"

 

[ming]

To me, it sounds like the "grower" should just buy the coral for $1000, and then just grow it out. and if you want to split it 5 ways, just wait until its big enough to frag into 5 pieces and then sell each frag for $200. (If you wanted to be even more conservative, then split it 10 or 20 ways to sell for $100 or $50 respectively)

The only difference is when the money exchanges hands, now vs when the fragging actually occurs. If your excuse is that you don't have the money, then that means you wouldn't have enough money to pay everybody back in the event your tank accidentally crashes. I don't care how experienced you are, crashes are never intentional and can list a few well known experienced hobbyists who had a tank crash or loss of some significant colonies of corals at one point or another.

 

[reefmaniac]

I'm starting to get a headache every time I read new posts on here. I believe it's either you want to be part of the grow out or you don't. And if you don't just move on and let it be.

 

[INNEED]

ming why do that when u just spent 1000 on 1 eye...... why resell it for 100.....i know some of u are gonna say thats why this hobby is wat it is with expensive corals and soo on and so but ask ur self would u do that n be serious......u wont trust me <<---- am sayin this in gen not towards u. but i would luv to see some one really do this.....lets be serious now.......

 

[ming]

ming why do that when u just spent 1000 on 1 eye...... why resell it for 100.....i know some of u are gonna say thats why this hobby is wat it is with expensive corals and soo on and so but ask ur self would u do that n be serious......u wont trust me <<---- am sayin this in gen not towards u. but i would luv to see some one really do this.....lets be serious now.......

Exactly my point! The end result is the same as what you want to do with this "grow out" thread.

If you sold each frag for $100, you would get $900 back + a frag for yourself, therefore spending only $100 on a $1000 frag.

In your "grow out" thread, 10 people are chipping in $100 each for a $1000 frag and the "grower" grows it out until you can frag it into 10 pieces and they each get a frag.

In BOTH scenario's, you spent only $100, and got only 1 frag.

The big difference in my scenario, the "grower" can't run off with the money and/or corals if it dies.

 

[INNEED]

nooo if i was to do the group buy it would be 4 ppl at the price of 425 an eye for the jason fox crazy fox chalice at 4 ppl it will be 106.25 would take approx 4-6 months to grow 4 eyes witch is not bad for a coral that goes for 1050 an eye........not a bad deal in my eyes.....but i see ur point

 

[PolandSpring]

For me it has absolutely nothing to do with money just a chance to get really nice coral let's be totally honest the designer coral is really colorful and nice I wouldn't be in a group buy for 1000$ but 200$ to get really nice palys or sps and I'm in


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$100-$200 is nothing in this hobby anymore

I'm in!