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clarionreef

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Hello people,
Have a look and see how far we have to go.

http://www.inq7.net/lif/2003/mar/11/lif_1-1.htm

...net caught fish cost 3-4 even 6 times more than cyanide caught fish???
collectors can catch only 4-8 fish a day?
yet...it points out the need for the collectors to relize tangible economic benefits from certification." [on 4-8 fish a day?]
Good to know the IMA is on the job...again. Or, at least in the news...ie. entertainment section...
Steve
 

mkirda

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cortez marine":319zjlns said:
collectors can catch only 4-8 fish a day?
Steve

I saw people catch this many after dumping a barrier net two or three times... Hard day's work indeed!

I just have to love the reporters that get the facts wrong, wrong, wrong.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

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Mike,
Are you sure it was the reporter?
Butchering the facts , although kind of expected from most reporters are not the only ones loose with the facts.
I no longer doubt the damage to information flow and reform coming from the incredibly inane things uttered by semi-environmental dilitauntes either.
Perhaps the old irrelevant groups that squandered the issue want back in the picture, but claiming that net trained divers are ineffective and uneconomic leaves one to wonder...what is their mission afterall, beside going for mega grant money?
"Net collecting doesn't work very well but support us anyway"...huh?
Steve
 

mkirda

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cortez marine":3nm25s79 said:
Mike,
Are you sure it was the reporter?
Butchering the facts , although kind of expected from most reporters are not the only ones loose with the facts.

Steve,

All I can say is that the reporter is responsible for checking the facts.
If one person says something, or more likely, mis-states something, the reporter's antenna should wiggle a bit, and she (in this case) should have known something is up. In that case, she could have asked the collectors in Clarin, Batasan, Palauig, Coron, or Bagac if they are 2-3 times less effective, or ask the exporters if they would pay 3-4 times as much...
She would have found the answer was an emphatic "No" from all these parties. She then should have re-checked with the person who made the statement/mis-statement and asked again to be sure, armed with these facts.

Anyway, this is how I see it. Others may see it differently, and that is ok that we have different thoughts or interpretations.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

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Mike,
If indeed the source was noneother than the Vice President of the International Marinelife Alliance, she may have been cowed by their supreme and impeccable credentials. Afterall...are they not the last word in marketing and pontificating on this "coral reef saving" stuff?
Steve
 

mkirda

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cortez marine":3od1plkd said:
Mike,
If indeed the source was noneother than the Vice President of the International Marinelife Alliance, she may have been cowed by their supreme and impeccable credentials.
Steve

Steve,

Again, I cannot say if she was cowed or chickened or caribowed.
I can say that she was less than diligent in checking the facts on her article.
That much is absolutely certain.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
Who thinks Steve couldn't go a month without making an anti-IMA comment.
 

dizzy

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Steve,
Are you sure that is the right link? It takes me to a typical MAC press release story. It basically calls MAC an environmental group and then equates the damage the aquarium trade is causing to the damage the food fish guys are causing. At the very least it lumps the two together into one bad.
 
A

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well, here's the article:

this story was taken from www.inq7.net

URL: http://www.inq7.net/lif/2003/mar/11/text/lif_1-1-p.htm



Aquarium fish
gets 'warranty'
Posted:11:07 PM (Manila Time) | Mar. 10, 2003
By Linda B. Bolido
Inquirer News Service


CHRISTOPHER Boeta is an overseas contract worker in the Cook Islands working as a diver. In a place where people probably learned to swim before they could walk, that might seem like hiring a Filipino to make wine in France or pasta in Italy.

But the 32-year-old Boeta, who works for the Cook Islands Aquarium Fish Ltd., has a skill not yet readily available in the self-governing New Zealand territory.

The native of Solomon Islands has been trained in Australia to collect aquarium fish in a sustainable manner.

That means no cyanide, no breaking the corals to get the marine animals out where they would be easier to catch, no overfishing and the right tools for bringing them to the surface.

The collection of aquarium fish may seem a harmless activity. But, together with the harvest of live fish and other seafood for high-end restaurants, it can cause havoc in a country's marine resources.

The use of cyanide – squirted to stun the fish so it can be easily collected – kills the corals and the countless tiny organisms that depend on them. And obviously breaking the coral to drive fishes out in the open for easier harvesting causes damage to the valuable resource that will take years to repair – if it can be fixed at all.

Chip Boyle, Boeta's boss, told a group of media people brought to the Cooks by the Washington D.C.-based SeaWeb and the Pacific Islands News Association that, increasingly, customers were saying they were not buying cyanide-caught fish anymore.

With the campaign for nature conservation being brought into the market place, this new consumer awareness is growing.

In the live fish trade in particular, the battle is being waged for the hearts and minds of hobbyists and foodies, who are constantly reminded that what their eyes and palates find delightful might be doing irreparable harm to the world's oceans and seas.

The special focus on the live fish trade is not surprising since the market is huge.

Michelle Lam, Pacific Region coordinator of Marine Aquarium Council (MAC), said in the United States alone, the value of retail trade in ornamental fish was about US$200 million.

Researcher Cristina Balboa said the total live fish trade volume amounted to about 1.5-2 billion dollars and some 11 million ornamental species were "consumed" by the US, the biggest customer accounting for some 60 percent of the trade, in one year alone.

Given this volume of business, environmental groups like MAC had to address such issues as overfishing, destructive collection practices, poor husbandry or handling of harvested species, unnecessary animal mortality and habitat degradation.

Charles Barber, vice president of the International Marinelife Alliance (IMA), acknowledged that sustainably collected fish would cost three to four-even six-times more than unsustainably harvested species.

But the price difference translates into a significant difference in lifespan. A healthy fish can survive for five to seven years while its cyanide-caught counterpart can last about six months. Besides, sustainable harvesting is more labor-intensive and resulted in fewer fish being caught.

Boyle said his divers, who went out to sea five days a week, averaged four to eight fish per day as they had to make sure they only caught fully mature and undamaged species. At least three different nets were used depending on the species being harvested. The divers also had to take care, when resurfacing, not to cause trauma to the fish.

The extreme care exercised in harvesting was carried over to the handling of harvest and shipment. Boyle said a fish with a chipped fin would be returned to the sea and a packing bag would hold no more than 15-22 pieces, depending on the species – the more "sociable" ones in bigger groups.

The major impact of the live fish trade on the environment prompted the adoption of a certification system almost similar to that for other consumer goods, particularly appliances.

Spearheaded by MAC, the system, which is now on its initial phase of implementation, involves the issuance of "warranty certificates" that indicate that the live fish was harvested in a sustainable manner.

Like other new things, the certification system is undergoing the expected birthing pains.

MAC, which is spearheading the initiative, acknowledged that several issues have to be addressed: "The need to ensure verification of no cyanide use where this practice of fishing continues to be a problem; the need to expand net-training for collectors and reef management to ensure a sufficient supply of certified fish; and the need to insure that the collectors realize tangible economic benefits from certification."

But Filipinos should take pride in the fact that, since the system got underway last year according to MAC, "the Batasan Tropical Fish Collectors Association in Bohol and Manila Exporters Aquarium Habitat, HD Marine World and Aquascapes Philippines were the first to gain MAC Certification."

In fact, the 27-member Batasan group of the town of Tubigon became the world's very first MAC Certified collector in October. It operates exclusively in the MAC Certified Batasan Island Collection Area.

The world's first MAC Certified importers and retailers welcomed the assurance of quality for the products they would be receiving.

Rick Preuss of Preuss Animal House, Lansing Michigan, said, "Having the assurance that these animals were caught and handled properly before they come under my care makes me a lot more comfortable when I sell them to my customers. For some more delicate organisms, I would rather wait for a MAC Certified one than have ones in stock that were not."

Retailer Brent Gardener, All Wet Pets, Flushing Michigan, said, "A lot of our customers are calling wanting MAC fish. We have some customers with tanks that have only MAC fish in them."

MAC is also focusing its effort and resources on working with collectors and communities not only to achieve certification but also to increase the supply of certified marine ornamentals.

Last year, IMA's Ferdinand Cruz worked with collectors and communities to develop collection area management plans and to train in net collecting, use of logbooks and post-harvest holding and handling techniques.

The MAC field staff has been working intensively with collectors in Coron, Palawan; Bagac, Bataan; Palauig, Zambales; and Clarin, Bohol, hoping to have these areas ready for certification early this year.

MAC is also collaborating on training programs for collectors with local governments in Lubang and Looc Islands in Mindoro and Camotes Island in Cebu, and developing the potential to provide training in parts of Mindanao and the provinces of Samar and Leyte.
©2003 www.inq7.net all rights reserved
 

dizzy

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mkirda":1j7fkmcy said:
cortez marine":1j7fkmcy said:
Mike,
If indeed the source was noneother than the Vice President of the International Marinelife Alliance, she may have been cowed by their supreme and impeccable credentials.
Steve

Steve,

Again, I cannot say if she was cowed or chickened or caribowed.
I can say that she was less than diligent in checking the facts on her article.
That much is absolutely certain.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
Who thinks Steve couldn't go a month without making an anti-IMA comment.

Mike,
This story was obviously written by the MAC spin team and spoon fed to the unsuspecting reporter. Chip Barber also sits on the MAC board I believe. It just serves to remind me of why I am suspicious of the MAC.
 

naesco

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Although there are obvious errors in the quotes from Mr. Barber it is refreshing to read a positive story about what are industry is doing.

Steve
Are you going to give us some information on your most recent Phillippine trip?
When did you arrrive back stateside?
 
A

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Dizzy,

What do you see that makes you so suspicious? Except for the one fact that we disagree about it looks like a pretty good story.

Write a letter to the editor stating that net collection can be just as effective as other collection activites and specify that there needs to be a seperation between the environmental effects of ornamental collection and food collection activities.

-Lee
 

dizzy

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vitz":1rx18x82 said:
The collection of aquarium fish may seem a harmless activity. But, together with the harvest of live fish and other seafood for high-end restaurants, it can cause havoc in a country's marine resources.

*The writer mixes the problems of food fish and aquarium fish.*

In the live fish trade in particular, the battle is being waged for the hearts and minds of hobbyists and foodies, who are constantly reminded that what their eyes and palates find delightful might be doing irreparable harm to the world's oceans and seas.

*And again here.*


Researcher Cristina Balboa said the total live fish trade volume amounted to about 1.5-2 billion dollars and some 11 million ornamental species were "consumed" by the US, the biggest customer accounting for some 60 percent of the trade, in one year alone.

*And once again here with the 2 billion dollar figure. Gosh I didn't know we had 11 million species to chose from either.*


Charles Barber, vice president of the International Marinelife Alliance (IMA), acknowledged that sustainably collected fish would cost three to four-even six-times more than unsustainably harvested species.

*The above quote is mind boggling, like Steve pointed out.*

But the price difference translates into a significant difference in lifespan. A healthy fish can survive for five to seven years while its cyanide-caught counterpart can last about six months. .

*I don't know who gave her the above but it is not based on fact. A lot of fish can live for 20 years or more, and I believe cyanide caught fish that last 6-months can often keep on living*

Boyle said his divers, who went out to sea five days a week, averaged four to eight fish per day as they had to make sure they only caught fully mature and undamaged species.

*Who is Chip Boyle. In an earlier quote he almost seems like an expert on cyanide use in the Cook Islands. Here he seems to have no clue how many fish his divers catch. He must be pis$ed about this article*


Lee,
The thing that makes this article suspicious is the fact that the writer uses most of the exact same sources that MAC uses in their other press release/news stories. People like Rick Pruess, Brent Gardener, and Michelle Lam. One should also notice that there was no effort to contact people like Peter Rubec or Steve Robinson for their input. I guess I just prefer articles written by reporters who are in search of the facts, instead of letting others manipulate them.
 

mkirda

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dizzy":36i1qh25 said:
Lee,
The thing that makes this article suspicious is the fact that the writer uses most of the exact same sources that MAC uses in their other press release/news stories. People like Rick Pruess, Brent Gardener, and Michelle Lam. One should also notice that there was no effort to contact people like Peter Rubec or Steve Robinson for their input. I guess I just prefer articles written by reporters who are in search of the facts, instead of letting others manipulate them.

Mitch,

What makes things even more difficult is the fact that MAC chooses not to cooperate with you if you want anything beyond their press releases.
As an example, I am writing an article on the MAC as seen by the collectors.
Now I do want to check my facts- I've gotten information from different sources that throw some of the MAC-provided info into the garbage heap. So far, MAC, despite several requests, has refused to answer my questions looking for clarification on these supposed 'facts'.
Frankly, I don't know what to do other than to go with what I have, and explain that MAC refused to answer the questions. I guess I have given them the opportunity to examine and correct the facts, but they are declining to do so. To me, this is very curious behaviour.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
A

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What I find problematic is that NO attention is given to the additional (huge!) problems/negative effects of deforestation, which equals sedimentation, or pollution. This is plainly ignorant, as are the aforementioned statements that generalize a fish's lifespan, the number of species, and this bits about "chipped fins" and that only adult fish are to be collected. Am I the only one who's seen more than my fair share of 2" Zebrasoma flavescens??

While the hobby industry shares a piece of the "problem contribution pie", there is no one answer to the issues considered. I found the article to be entirely myopic in its scope, and the plethora of misstatements renders it null and void in my own view.
 

John_Brandt

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It might be helpful to read what Charles "Chip" Barber had to say about the article.....


John:

I looked the article over again, and what it quotes me as saying is totally ridiculous and untrue - I never said anything of the sort to her or to anyone else. Not only is the statement untrue, it is also untrue that I ever said that to her. I had one discussion with her at a meeting in the Cook Islands last July (at a reception), and she said she was interested in writing an article about the BFAR take-over of the cyanide testing labs in the Philippines. I put her in touch with some people there at the IMA office, and encouraged her to talk to BFAR directly as well. She never followed up with me, and I assumed she dropped the idea for an article on the topic.

This was just shoddy journalism, and you can certainly quote me on that to all and sundry.

Cheers,

Chip
 

naesco

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John I know you are on #reefs at the end of this month but it would be better IMO if you would please post your `report` and use the opportunity of #reefs for a summary and for questions and answers.

Thank you
 

Jaime Baquero

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An important aspect that merits to be underlined from this article is that "Christopher Boeta the native from Salomon Islands has been trained in Australia to collect ornamental fish in a sustainable manner".

The value of ornamentals in Australia is the factor that makes the difference. Collectors in Australia are well paid and do not need to collect hundreds of fish weekly to be capable of putting food on the table as happens in the Philippines and Indonesia.

Lyle Squire wholesaler from Australia, made a presentation back in 1998 about the trade in Australia. Ideal management practices in Australia assure that the trade is environmentally sustainable, socially benefitial and economically viable. According to his talk, in Australia there were only 180 fish licensed collectors which export annually around US$ 10 million. In the Philippines where we know are between 4,000 and 5,000 collectors the value of exports, according to the Bureau of Agriculture and Statistics of the Philippines was for the same year US$8,5 million.

We must admit that something is really wrong. This is due to the cheap fish structure in the PI and Ind. As a result thetrade is not environmentally sustainable, too many fish collected and very high unnecessary mortality, nor economically viable for collectors or socially benefitial for collectors.

Jaime[/u]
 

delbeek

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Chip Boyle is a long-time collector in the Cook Islands, he is the man who Richard Pyle named Centropyge boylei after. I cannot speak to the accuracy of the article but the number of fish collected per day MIGHT be a reflection of the fact that these may be deep dives on mixed gas, since this is one thing that Chip Boyle's collectors do. Also deepwater fish are collected in small numbers not only due to limited bottom time but also by keeping the numbers supplied to the hobby low ... one keeps the price high.

Aloha!
JCD
 

Kalkbreath

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Jaime Baquero":gs3gp69p said:
An important aspect that merits to be underlined from this article is that "Christopher Boeta the native from Salomon Islands has been trained in Australia to collect ornamental fish in a sustainable manner".

The value of ornamentals in Australia is the factor that makes the difference. Collectors in Australia are well paid and do not need to collect hundreds of fish weekly to be capable of putting food on the table as happens in the Philippines and Indonesia.

Lyle Squire wholesaler from Australia, made a presentation back in 1998 about the trade in Australia. Ideal management practices in Australia assure that the trade is environmentally sustainable, socially benefitial and economically viable. According to his talk, in Australia there were only 180 fish licensed collectors which export annually around US$ 10 million. In the Philippines where we know are between 4,000 and 5,000 collectors the value of exports, according to the Bureau of Agriculture and Statistics of the Philippines was for the same year US$8,5 million.

We must admit that something is really wrong. This is due to the cheap fish structure in the PI and Ind. As a result thetrade is not environmentally sustainable, too many fish collected and very high unnecessary mortality, nor economically viable for collectors or socially benefitial for collectors.

Jaime[/u]
There is only about 2000 boxes comming out of PI a week...........so there might be 5000 collectors........ but very few active.{ less then one box a week if all 5000 were collecting}....the fish collected in Austraillia are thirty dollar fish not thirty cent fish like PI. I also find the dollar amount from Austrailia a bit high..............there needs to be alot more of those fish going to UK in order to export 10 million, even then It sure seem impossible
_________________
Mercedes 450SEL 6.9
 

MaryHM

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I think it's really difficult to compare Australia and the Philippines. The fish coming out of those countries are like apples and elephants! You don't get 50 species of gobies, tons of little inverts (anemones, crabs, shrimp, etc..) out of Australia like you do PI. The fish that come out of there tend to be large, high dollar fish like Scribbled & Personifer Angels, Harlequin Tusk Wrasses, High dollar Butterflies, etc... The variety is probably about 10% what PI can produce, but 90%+ of those fish are high dollar fish. If PI was exporting 2000 boxes of Blue Face Angels, Clown Triggers, and Imperator Angels, the "export value" would be phenomenal.
 

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