Funding Reform

[Jaime Baquero]

Mary,

Our goals as NGO are:

1) To conserve the diversity of marine life
2) To protect and restore marine environments
3) To enhance the quality of life and income of those who harvest marine resources
4) To promote the sustainable harvest of marine resources

and more

We do not ignore the problems and complications that you as importer have to face each day of operation, we do not ignore that this fish business is a difficult one. We understand that there is a considerable overhead attached to the operation. We know many aspects of the business.

The point I am making here is that change is possible but only if the industry set up in the Philippines, regarding fish prices, is seriously evaluated. I am saying that fish collectors are not getting decent prices for their fish, also saying that each one of the stakeholders of the industry needs to appreciate the coral reefs and their inhabitants giving them a
reasonable economic value. Too many years of exploitation, time to put something back is long overdue.

The problem in Indonesia is worse and must be addressed by the industry,
unfortunately no one cares about it. That is not good sign.

Jaime

 

[JennM]

And while the LFS usually has a 300% markup, his profit margin is probably the lowest in the chain due to overhead and losses.

Who gets 300% profit ??????????
I sure dont and never have-but, yes, the overhead is very high, ( my loss rate is very low ) and profit margin--hmmm, service people on here are the ones who have profit margins..
omg, if it was true that we LFS make so much money-- then why have so many given up or gone out of business ???

I do not mind if the price for each fish goes up-- this is a LUXURY hobby- not a necessity--and it is about time that the "poor hobbyist" realizes this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Easy, Judy - I read that to mean that even though the average LFS marks up livestock 300 %, DESPITE THIS they have the LOWEST PROFIT MARGIN -- the poster wasn't saying that LFS make a ton of money - quite the contrary - despite the perceived high markup, it's way offset by high overhead and losses. Rent, electricity, employees, cost of goods and livestock sold, and etc.

There are good points being brought all around - fixing this industry is truly a monumental task...... we are all on the same side, but there are lots of differences of opinion about how to achieve that.

Jenn

 

[MaryHM]

The point I am making here is that change is possible but only if the industry set up in the Philippines, regarding fish prices, is seriously evaluated.

But do you understand why Mike and I are saying the huge increases you suggested are not possible right now? Or do you think they are possible to start today?

 

[mkirda]

The MAC could play a positive role in effecting these changes through its certification program by negotiating changes in the pricing paid to the collectors. This would provide the economic incentives needed to get collectors using nets and to stop backsliding to the use of cyanide.

Peter and all,

If there is one thing that has been hammered home to me, it is this:

MAC wants nothing to do with interfering in how the business is run in the Philippines.

MAC will not push for these price increases. Period. They do not want to dirty their hands with this.

If there exists one single reason why MAC will fail in it's mission, it is it's unwillingness to try to work this out. If it cannot work with the industry to create economic incentives to keep net fishing, they will ultimately fail in their goal.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[MaryHM]

David Vossler told me that it would be illegal for MAC to get involved in pricing structure issues. Apparently as a non-profit they are not allowed to do that. Frankly, it makes sense to me.

 

[mkirda]

David Vossler told me that it would be illegal for MAC to get involved in pricing structure issues. Apparently as a non-profit they are not allowed to do that. Frankly, it makes sense to me.

Then their mission is doomed without... Well...
Don't you think it ironic that the man they hate the most in the Philippines has
done more to help the net-collectors than they have? :wink:

Regards.
Mike Kirda
P.S. Maybe we should send Ferdie a cute little cape and spandex outfit...

 

[MaryHM]

They hate anyone who accomplishes something they won't/can't. If it's not the MAC way, then it's the highway. There is the inherent problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Mike,

Wasn't it this person's job to help the net collectors when he was employed by MAC? :wink:

-Lee

 

[mkirda]

Mike,

Wasn't it this person's job to help the net collectors when he was employed by MAC? :wink:

-Lee

Lee,

What makes you think he wasn't at the time?
Funny thing is, unencumbered by the NGO's self-imposed limitations, he has been able to accomplish more in six months than we was in the previous two years.

Of course, there is no web site, or pretty brochures or published papers that are coming out of it, so the achievement will go largely unheralded and unnoticed by the rest of the world. Shame, really.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Nancy Swart]

Of course, there is no web site, or pretty brochures or published papers that are coming out of it

Why not, Mike? If you feel there is important information to share, I'd be happy to setup a special section on the MASNA website. Just say the word...

NS

 

[mkirda]

Why not, Mike?

Because there is no NGO behind it, Nancy.
Otherwise you can be sure it would be documented to be milked for all that it was worth.

Jeez, was that my cynicism that just showed through? Oops, sorry about that...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Now Mike,
Remember, its not what you know or how important it is. It matters not if the issue is squandered and reefs die...The main thing is how you remain pleasant in the face of tragedy and injustice...
I wrote a post but deleted it accidently. Its just as well. We need new blood and with the patience of Job. You're it.
Steve

 

[Nancy Swart]

Mikey,

Please 'splain. I'm trying to get educated on all these issues, remember. Is this an individual doing good things that the world should know about or are we intentionally keeping them a secret? Too many inuendoes for me to put the puzzle pieces together...

NS

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Mary,

Yes, I understand that the huge increase is not going to happen overnight. However, I think that 10% to start with is not enough motivation. How long is going to take for the reform to begin its implementation? This reform is something extremelly important and collectors have been waiting for long time.

What organization or group is relevant to accomplish this difficult task?

Does that organization or group have the means to face the Filipino exporters system and fight for the cause?

What is the number of importers and business supporting this effort?

What is the work plan of this group or organization?

We are willing to help.

Jaime

 

[mkirda]

Mikey,

Please 'splain. {snip} Too many inuendoes for me to put the puzzle pieces together...

NS

Hi, Nancy.

Sorry, I thought it was understood...

I am talking about Ferdinand Cruz. He has been working like a madman ever since leaving the MAC, and there have been significant results for the villages he has been working with.

It is my sincere hope that we can back his efforts with some sort of structure, be it a Filipino NGO or a Western one. If things still work out with CORL, great. If things work out with AMDA, great. If these fall through, and something else takes their place(s), I'm happy with that as well, as long as he gets the support needed, and the villagers get trained.

To be honest, I've been toying around with a lot of ideas on how to make this happen. Forming a 501(c)(3) might take too long...

Anyone have any suggestions as to a not-for-profit or NGO that we might approach in order to bring us all together and focus the effort, put the ideas forth.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

Why does it have to be a not for profit?

 

[Nancy Swart]

Rover, exactly and agreed!

Mike, you can file as a tax-exempt non-profit and could possibly be rolling in less than 30 days. There are tons of online companies that do this. Going for a 501(c)(3) could come later but in enough time for sponsors to make it tax deductible for them. For now, all you need is your Incorporation papers and a Fed Tax ID #.

My suggestion would be that YOU head up this cause since you seem to be a bit more objective overall than the rest of us and have a good feel for the lives and traditions of the Filipinos.

You also have academic ties which certainly can't hurt. Get some of those MACNA speakers who are on staff at Universities to sit on your Fundraising Comm. Peter and Jaime have said they'd help. Go for it, my friend!

Nancy

 

[John_Brandt]

John,
Retract that and give me a break.
That staff could not and does not. If they did we might have a little more to show for the effort.
The problem would be easy to solve with a fraction of that budget they spend..if only they knew how to do it right and spend it right!

Steve

Shame Shame Shame on you Steve ...it's completely true. No retraction necessary except your attitude. I was able to engage both Sylvia and Paul by email on Sunday afternoon. Why? Because they were working.

I can usually get through to Sylvia at 6am by email. Why? Because she is working.

David will often call me at 9pm to discuss things. Why? Because he is working.

Anyone who supports a responsible and non-destructive marine aquarium trade ought to be thankful that there are devoted people like these working RIGHT NOW to bring about long overdue reform to this industry.

Do I need to include comments on the devotion and hard work of the MAC Philippines Coordinator Aquilino Alvarez Jr.? I think you know him too well to suggest that he is not working overtime to bring all of our ideals to reality.

 

[clarionreef]

John,
Putting in hours on the wrong priorities may be considered working hard. Putting in hours doing WHAT, is the important question.
I sure know what its not! Its not towards making advances where the real fish are and where the fisherman are! Its not in working with others to forge net training alliances! Its not getting wet and working up a sweat.

I'm sure MACs people define the failure to reform the aquarium trade differently than I. They work hard according to their definition of it.
I see them as beginners, office workers and outsiders squandering the issue and going down the wrong road. No matter how determined you are, if you're going down the wrong road...you will not arrive!
Since there are no fish coming from MAC worth a damn in quantity nor variety, we marinelife dealers have nothing to sell...unless its the mixing of cyanide fish that MAC has no quarrel with. [ yes, yes, the few fish are seperated on paper ]
What the hell do they have to show for all these years and all this funding raised in pretense of industry reform? Who are they fooling?
Tokenism works for some I guess. It does not for people who actually work in this industry. We sell fish, not paperwork.
So far, MAC has been irrelevant to the production of anything I can use. If it takes three years to get as far as the Buhol achievement...slimy, tight packed maroons, skinny mandarins and chelmons...must we wait another 3 years for the next token achievement? Oh, Camotes Island is coming...I can hardly wait!
There will be training to produce something real this year...unfortunately, it will probably not involve MAC. I just cannot see what they do well or what they have to offer.
Steve

 

[John_Brandt]

John,

How many shipments of net caught fish have you witnessed coming into an import facility?

None. I witnessed a shipment of MAC Certified fish arriving at an exporter in Manila.

I have worked with shipments from Cortez Handcaught Marines off-and-on since 1983.

I now realize that my statement, "None. I witnessed a shipment of MAC Certified fish arriving at an exporter in Manila.", could be misunderstood.

I have witnessed plenty of net caught fish arriving at import facilities. You could say that just about any shipment that comes from regions other than Southeast Asia, is net caught. The only known net caught Southeast Asian fish shipment I have witnessed arriving was the MAC Certified one that I spoke of.