House Bill HR 4928
- Thread starter PeterIMA
- Start date
coralfarmin":2tf27klh said:
Well if you didn't have legs, could you walk? This industry is built on WC animals, aquaculture couldn't support it one bit, at least not in the fashion that the dry goods dealers would require to stay afloat. The dry good manufacturers depend on MO to have their technology take care of them. They're entire pricing structure would get wacked out due to way less sales. Some could survive, but most IMO would vanish. We'll be stuck with the giants like the lines Cental owns (and is continuing to gobble up more as we speak).
Could be years, ever watched a bill go thru the course?
coralfarmin":15vtcqhs said:
I saw your question the first time
The bill as written raises a great number of questions. My initial problem with it is that it doesn't properly define what it is asking for. In order for the US to import wild harvested marine ornamental species science-based management at the collecting areas must first be established, but it doesn't say what this science-based management would look like. It demands "certification" that wild collection was not done destructively and illegally, without saying what that "certification" would need to be.
It demands that the trade jump through some hoops without clearly defining those hoops.
The bill will be examined, discussed and criticized by the industry and lobbyists. It's too soon for me to say what might happen and when.
John_Brandt":2fi0s5r2 said:coralfarmin":2fi0s5r2 said:
I saw your question the first time
The bill as written raises a great number of questions. My initial problem with it is that it doesn't properly define what it is asking for. In order for the US to import wild harvested marine ornamental species science-based management at the collecting areas must first be established, but it doesn't say what this science-based management would look like. It demands "certification" that wild collection was not done destructively and illegally, without saying what that "certification" would need to be.
It demands that the trade jump through some hoops without clearly defining those hoops.
The bill will be examined, discussed and criticized by the industry and lobbyists. It's too soon for me to say what might happen and when.
Couldn't have said it better myself John. Its in it early stages of development, all is not lost.
Important reports to read about the issues at hand. These have probably informed conservationists and government officials about the status of the marine ornamental trade.
INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN CORAL AND CORAL REEF SPECIES: THE ROLE OF THE UNITED STATES
Report of the Trade Subgroup of the International Working Group to the U.S. Coral Reef Task Force - March 2, 2000 - Washington, D.C
Table of Contents and Executive Summary: http://www.coralreef.gov/international/tablecon.pdf
Main Report: http://www.coralreef.gov/international/trade.pdf
Appendices: http://www.coralreef.gov/international/append.pdf
FROM OCEAN TO AQUARIUM: THE GLOBAL TRADE IN MARINE ORNAMENTAL SPECIES
United Nations Environment Program - World Conservation Monitoring Center - 2003
Main Report: http://www.unep-wcmc.org/resources/publications/WCMC_Aquarium.pdf
INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN CORAL AND CORAL REEF SPECIES: THE ROLE OF THE UNITED STATES
Report of the Trade Subgroup of the International Working Group to the U.S. Coral Reef Task Force - March 2, 2000 - Washington, D.C
Table of Contents and Executive Summary: http://www.coralreef.gov/international/tablecon.pdf
Main Report: http://www.coralreef.gov/international/trade.pdf
Appendices: http://www.coralreef.gov/international/append.pdf
FROM OCEAN TO AQUARIUM: THE GLOBAL TRADE IN MARINE ORNAMENTAL SPECIES
United Nations Environment Program - World Conservation Monitoring Center - 2003
Main Report: http://www.unep-wcmc.org/resources/publications/WCMC_Aquarium.pdf
John,
Your not being very nice. Here is another quote for you. "The MAMTI project brings together three non-governmental organizations (NGOs)- the Marine Aquarium Council, the Conservation and Community Investment Forum (CCIF) , and Reef Check- in an unprecedented strategic combination of supply-side and demand-side interventions to mainstream the transformation of the marine aquarium industry into a vehicle of conservation, sustainable use and sustainable livelihoods that contribute to poverty alleviation."
What a worthy and wonderful goal. Sounds like Utopia is just down the road for us all. Well we certainly seem to be headed in the right direction. Thankyou very much for all you've done.
Mitch
PS What exactly do y'all mean by demand side interventions? Inquiring minds want to know.
Your not being very nice. Here is another quote for you. "The MAMTI project brings together three non-governmental organizations (NGOs)- the Marine Aquarium Council, the Conservation and Community Investment Forum (CCIF) , and Reef Check- in an unprecedented strategic combination of supply-side and demand-side interventions to mainstream the transformation of the marine aquarium industry into a vehicle of conservation, sustainable use and sustainable livelihoods that contribute to poverty alleviation."
What a worthy and wonderful goal. Sounds like Utopia is just down the road for us all. Well we certainly seem to be headed in the right direction. Thankyou very much for all you've done.
Mitch
PS What exactly do y'all mean by demand side interventions? Inquiring minds want to know.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
John wrote...Important reports:
"these have probably informed the conservationists and government officials about the status of the trade...
This suggests that MAC had little to do with this sudden appearence of hr bill 4928...and was equally surprised as the rest of us.
Steve
"these have probably informed the conservationists and government officials about the status of the trade...
This suggests that MAC had little to do with this sudden appearence of hr bill 4928...and was equally surprised as the rest of us.
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
But,
If it is WE in the industry revealing them...and have been for 25 years... how are they secret?
Where did the exposes come from? The photos proving cyanide abuse?
How many years has the aquarium trade been ridden by eco groups?
How much money has been raised and spent in the service of this very trade by these groups?
How secret could it have been if they have written and spent so many grants on 'our' behalf? Grants that have run now into the millions and continue to?
The dirty secret is not just an industry one...but also one where eco groups have squandered the money endlessly and foolishly to very little acclaim.
"Looting environmental issues, sending divers BACK to cyanide, increasing poverty and funding failures on cue."
Thats the name of the book I'll write when this is over.
Steve
If it is WE in the industry revealing them...and have been for 25 years... how are they secret?
Where did the exposes come from? The photos proving cyanide abuse?
How many years has the aquarium trade been ridden by eco groups?
How much money has been raised and spent in the service of this very trade by these groups?
How secret could it have been if they have written and spent so many grants on 'our' behalf? Grants that have run now into the millions and continue to?
The dirty secret is not just an industry one...but also one where eco groups have squandered the money endlessly and foolishly to very little acclaim.
"Looting environmental issues, sending divers BACK to cyanide, increasing poverty and funding failures on cue."
Thats the name of the book I'll write when this is over.
Steve
Well it was a secret from hobbyists Steve. Little did I know when I first got into the hobby that I was a part of the destruction of the reefs. Cyanide was a poison used by criminals to kill people not importers and exporters to increase their profits.
The internet opened the book. This forum and the last few years wrote the obituary.
And you can write the book and start now. Expose all and have them face justice for what they have done to the jewels surrounding the Islands of the Philippines and Indonesia.
But rejoice, for it soon will be over, and the reefs with the help of reeformers and governments like yours and mine will begin their timeless repair and the criminals who knowingly traffic in cyanide fish will face justice.
The internet opened the book. This forum and the last few years wrote the obituary.
And you can write the book and start now. Expose all and have them face justice for what they have done to the jewels surrounding the Islands of the Philippines and Indonesia.
But rejoice, for it soon will be over, and the reefs with the help of reeformers and governments like yours and mine will begin their timeless repair and the criminals who knowingly traffic in cyanide fish will face justice.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Wayne,
Much to the chargrin of many in the trade, the hobbyists were the very first to know!
The years of photo essays in FAMA took their toll and earned me and my Filipino colleagues in the Philippines death threats on numerous occassions.
This was hammered home much harder then as it is now. Since the cyanide trade now has eco groups covering for and fronting for it...the attacks on the most guilty [ ie. those dealers who break down drums of cyanide and distribute it to collectors...still] have been watered down.
The trade has been lulled into believing that MAC has it covered.
...and had since gone to sleep....until now.
Steve
PS. Just wait til they find out that about MACs complicity in the genesis of the bill now proposed by Rep. Ed Case!
Much to the chargrin of many in the trade, the hobbyists were the very first to know!
The years of photo essays in FAMA took their toll and earned me and my Filipino colleagues in the Philippines death threats on numerous occassions.
This was hammered home much harder then as it is now. Since the cyanide trade now has eco groups covering for and fronting for it...the attacks on the most guilty [ ie. those dealers who break down drums of cyanide and distribute it to collectors...still] have been watered down.
The trade has been lulled into believing that MAC has it covered.
...and had since gone to sleep....until now.
Steve
PS. Just wait til they find out that about MACs complicity in the genesis of the bill now proposed by Rep. Ed Case!
cortez marine":3oy1hawx said:
As far as I know, Peter Rubec actually scooped the news of the bill. I didn't know about it. I forwarded the link to MAC staff. They learned of it with that link. From the sounds of it the USCRTF might not have known before its release on July 22. I think it is no accident that it was released the same day as the presentation of the approved final draft of the report by the United States Committee on Ocean Policy. It will be delivered now to the President and Congress. It makes recommendations for legislation which would require demonstration of ecosystem sustainability in the marine ornamental trade. It was like the "Day of the Coral Reef" in Washington DC on July 22.
I haven't had time to check yet, but somebody could research whether any of the statistics used in the bill's Findings came from either of those reports I posted links to.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Well John,
You might ask Suzanne Case...sister of congressman Ed Case...you know the author of hr 4928.
She heads the TNC... The Nature Conservance in Honolulu.
Her adress there is 923 Nu'uanu Ave. Honolulu.
Wait...that looks like...it is! Thats MACs adress in Honolulu as well.
They don't tell you everything John. It allows you plausible deniability.
Steve
You might ask Suzanne Case...sister of congressman Ed Case...you know the author of hr 4928.
She heads the TNC... The Nature Conservance in Honolulu.
Her adress there is 923 Nu'uanu Ave. Honolulu.
Wait...that looks like...it is! Thats MACs adress in Honolulu as well.
They don't tell you everything John. It allows you plausible deniability.
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Now, now,
Give him time to call the boss and figure out how to spin out of this one.
Steve
Give him time to call the boss and figure out how to spin out of this one.
Steve
Could be smart political move by Ed.. - I doubt too many islanders will really give a rats (thereby saving his butt and he doesn't really lose ground if it goes south with an industry backlash) and if it goes sailing through he could potentially look like a glory-boy for saving the reefs from the industry "whalers".. :roll:
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