vitz":f1jbho36 said:
b&m's as a whole, just like the internet fish biz as a whole, and most animal husbandry industries, are about MAKING MONEY-most businesses look at education and morality as minor secondary issues
No kidding. I'm sure all the employees work for philanthropic reasons and not for a paycheck. Everybody knows that money makes the world go around, why make it into an issue for entities, etail, retail or otherwise to earn a living? It's irrelevant.
more hobbyists have been ruined by b&m's crappy advice and hoodwinking selling people useless crapola for their dollars than the internet, simply by virtue of the internet being a much younger medium for the trade.
Of course, because it's the sole purpose of a B&M to do this. Talk about tarring everybody with the same brush! The ONLY reason why retailers get the bulk of the blame for this is because it's usually the hobbyist's FIRST STOP before they discover they can buy the same crapola, sometimes more cheaply, online. When somebody points and clicks to add to their cart, does anybody real pop up and ask them their tank specs to make sure it's a good choice for their application? NO. So how many hobbyists actually call the etailer to educate themselves before they click the checkout button? Got any percentage stats?
there isn't really any difference between a b&m vs internet store....there's a world of diff. between a good store and a bad store, regardless if it's b&m, or e-tail
There IS a world of difference between a B&M and an etailer. Drop-shippers and call centers compared to a mom and pop store with a caring proproprietor and hobbyist staff are like comparing guns and butter.
What I might add is that there are good etailers and retailers and there are bad etailers and retailers -- that "generalization" is perhaps more appropriate.
no b&m 'found' a hobbyist, ever-the hobbyists find the stores, bubbah
Oh no? Hmmm looky-lous coming by here from the restaurant down the mall, came in, liked what they saw, asked questions, bought a betta and a book about it, then moved up to a 20 gallon tank, and so on... No perhaps we didn't pull them in off the street, but once the place caught their interest and they came in, we were able to deal with it from there.
How many hobbyists get their start from zero by Internet? It's been said here before and it bears repeating - without the brick and mortar shops, etailers in this hobby wouldn't last without us bringing new blood into the hobby. You may not like this, but it's true. B&M were around long before the Internet, and there were many successful hobbyists out there before the Internet.
....case in point- i just got off the phone w/a customer, who's been told by his wonderful b&m that it's impossible to have a fowlr tank, and that all fowlr tanks are doomed, lol
So one customer gets one opinion from one B&M, so we all suck? Would you get one opinion about one new car, from the car salesman?
I got bad, no, horrible service from ONE etailer when I decided to try that 5 years ago as a hobbyist...they sent me a fish that was dead in the bag, probably long before it got put on that truck within 10 minutes of my order being placed - the whole box stunk and the fish was decomposed... so therefore I should tar EVERYONE with that same brush? Puhlease.....
It was a 20 minute phone call (that's eons long, for a call center-but it's not always about the time limit, it's about customer service
)
ONLY 20 minutes? Hell it takes me that long just to learn the person's name, their spouse's name, what sort of tank they have and what sports their kids play. Guess that's the big difference between B&M and etail... there's no limit to the amount of time spent, whether they buy today or not -- leave them feeling like we care about them and they'll be back, and we'll recognize their face and know their name. 20 minutes is nothing.
so he's now armed w/the info needed to UNDERSTAND why that b&m is a moron, and he now had b&m 'advice' corrected by an etailer! 8O
God knows I've *never* had to correct bad advice given by an etailer... *cough*... like Harlequin Sweetlips are easy care fish that won't outgrow a 55... or Mandarins are great for nano reefs, or a plethora of other crapola placed on fish-selling websites for the sake of moving fish to unsuspecting newbs who take what the reseller's website says as Gospel.
What I'm hearing from you is that now your customer has heard TWO opinions - yours and that of the B&M. Also, please keep in mind you heard the customer's INTERPRETATION of what his B&M said - you didn't get it straight from the horse's mouth either.
The customer is always right, even when they are lying.
How many posts have you ever read about some unsuspecting newb buying a Sea Clone for their 55-gallon tank, and then see the B&M being slammed for "selling" it to them? Right - and how many of those same hobbyists admit that the B&M suggested a better, more efficient, and YES, slightly more expensive skimmer, that actually works? Oh wait, they often conveniently omit that part - after all it would render them accountable for putting good money after bad.
BTW, how many 'clones have you sold today?
"bringing people into this hobby" for the purpose of killing livestock to make a store owner richer is nothing to be proud of, kalk :idea:
Here's a news flash, Vitz. Once a creature is removed from the ocean, as far as the ocean is concerned, it's DEAD. Whether it lives a day, week, month or 10 years, it's dead. Whether you sell it from your call center or I sell it from my tanks here, it's dead.
My goal as an evil B&M is to keep my local customer base happy in the hobby for years to come so I might *cough* eek out a living and feed my family by doing good business. For this means helping the customer make appropriate choices, and ensuring the longevity of his/her livestock, not "letting him kill more stuff" or whatever you described it as. Do etailers call or email their customers weeks after the purchase to ask how the creature is doing? Something tells me that's a "no"....
As an etailer, you don't need locals - you have a global marketplace so if folks in one area fail, no biggie, there are many untapped locations to draw on. If anything, the onus is on the local shopkeeper to try harder because our market is far more limited.
people like me correct people like you daily, and we wonder how the hobby ever survived this long given that about 80% of all retailers who are giving 'instruction' to customers either are clueless, or have a staff that's mostly incompetent AND clueless
Know what? I can say the same thing - however I try not to be as arrogant about it. I've *only* got about 20 years in the hobby so I still have much to learn and I don't have all the answers - but I draw on my own experience as best I can. I'm sorry that your experience with retailers is so negative. Speaking from both major metropolitan areas that I've lived in during my adult life, I can tell you that I've had some awesome stores to deal with - in fact one of them is my own store's namesake. Guess I was just lucky -- imagine, to live in 2 major centers in 2 different countries, and have great experiences with stores in both... I must have a lucky horseshoe someplace
Too bad that what, 80% of stores everywhere else in the world suck... perhaps I should buy a lotto ticket to have been so fortunate... :roll:
stores don't 'support' hobbyists and hobbyists don't really need stores
Really? Hmmm tell that to my client Todd whose tank decided to burst on Christmas Eve at 5:00 last year. If you want details go to my website and read the magazine article there. I'd like to think it's a mutual thing - the hobbyists support the stores, and pay our bills, and in return we can help them at a time of crisis. Todd sure "needed" something on Christmas Eve... and he was a loyal customer before and since.
Besides... what would hobbyists do with all their inappropriate livestock purchases if they didn't have a reliable B&M to unload them on!? :lol:
(especially since 90% of what they (we) sell isn't even necessary for aquarium use to begin with) :wink:
So I guess you are as much a part of your perceived problem too? How many people do you convince NOT to buy products that *you* deem unnecessary? Or are you paid on a commission basis? Fair's fair - I don't make or pay commission. Hell I don't even draw a paycheck
Just in case you were going to point a finger back
-Aunt Q.B.O.T.U. (just ask me what it means!)
