• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

sdcfish

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Steve,

Thanks for addressing the question. Yes, it's truly amazing that it's been that long with Mr. Patrick at the helm and they have come so far with his leadership! :cry:

His agenda, your previous agenda, and where has Amda gone with either?

It is good news that elections are up again. I will be trying again for some solid positive change to the group and hope that the next term will actually bring some kind of positive change and involvement.

Have you seen any improvements or changes since your tenure?

I find your previous reply's to my questions very interesting. I was taught at a very young age never to point fingers. Seems you do so without any consideration about how YOU could have made changes and it's just so easy for you to place blame on others.

No reason for me to have a discussion with you......it's obvious you have only one sided reasoning within your capacity. Just remember, every time you point a finger at another, you get three fingers pointed right back atcha!

Best regards,

Eric
 

clarionreef

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Eric,
AMDA was formed by John Tullock who did not want it to be used for false pretenses or devious purposes.
It is to be an independant organization and not a buying club or a captive market for some grand sales vision.
Organizing sheep for the slaughter under a certain umbrella group is what has been prevented.
Selling and marketing cyanide caught fish under the cover of MAC certification is treason enough to the cause of the coral reefs.
Using AMDA to do the same thing will not happen as AMDA will never be without elections and free choice..
The constant refrain to let bygones be bygones suggests that you agree with me that there is much to let go of and forgive.
Why can't the effort to market the trade in a better light go with serious deeds as well?
You would never, ever allow the kind of waste without results occur in business that occurs routinely with the groups whose image you are trying to improve.
The thing is...they can only improve with deeds. You simply cannot fool professionals with tricks that fool the outsiders. :wink:
I mean...why fake it....why not really do it???

Steve

RESPONSIBLE RETAILING

by John H. Tullock

My motivation for starting AMDA was the notion that the hobby of marine aquarium keeping and the industry that supports it cannot justify doing harm to irreplaceable natural resources.
While most people appear to agree with this principle, issues remain regarding what constitutes "harm," who should be responsible for resource protection, and how such issues involve the day-to-day operation of a small business. While the space available for this article does not afford sufficient opportunity to explore every issue in depth, it is possible to provide some guidelines for successful, environmentally responsible marine aquarium retailing.

First, consider three issues and the scientific discussion surrounding them:

1. Use of chemicals to collect fish.
The literature is scanty, but evidence that exposure of corals to cyanide results in damage clearly exists. Corals exposed in the laboratory to doses of cyanide calculated to reasonably simulate the exposure that would result from cyanide fishing near the coral produced a reduction in respiration and loss of the zooxanthellae. Loss of zooxanthellae is known to lower the ability of the coral to grow and reproduce. It is also known that reestablishment of the symbiotic zooxanthellae can take up to a year. (Jones, 1997) Loss of symbionts has also been reported as an effect of exposure to quinaldine. (Japp and Wheaton, 1975) The survival, growth and reproduction of corals is obviously essential to the continued health of a reef. We need healthy reefs to produce an abundant supply of aquarium fish, as well as for other, perhaps more important reasons. The long term health of our industry - despite the advances in captive propagation - depends upon the long term health of the world's coral reefs. Businesses at every level must come to grips with the problem of cyanide fishing and take whatever steps are necessary to eliminate the practice. Of all the issues confronting us, this one is the most clear-cut.

2. Mortalities.
Excessive mortalities in marine fish have long been attributed to the chronic effects of cyanide exposure during capture. Research indicates, however, that this may not be the case. Stress, abetted by starvation, caused the highest mortality rate in a study designed specifically to address the question of cyanide's long-term effect on fish (Hall and Bellwood, 1995). The experimental design was also intended to mimic the stresses a fish might experience during two weeks between capture and export from the country of origin. It is interesting to note, however, that 70 percent of the fish survived even the harshest experimental treatment. If one assumes that, at this point in the supply chain, nearly three-quarters of the specimens will survive, one must look to the other links in the chain for the possible causes of higher mortalities. One obvious place to point is cargo mishandling by the airlines. However, while it is easy to bash the airlines for their contribution to the problem, I am inclined to suspect that our energies would be better spent implementing better methods for packaging marine fish for shipment. Shipments are still packed as they were 20 years ago, despite improvements in both materials and knowledge. Retailers can also look to wholesalers to improve handling methods. Despite the short stay that most specimens have in wholesaler's holding tanks, water quality in those tanks must be good, and husbandry and handling techniques must be appropriate. The same goes for retailers. Once a specimen reaches the United States, little excuse exists for increasing, rather than attempting to reduce, its level of stress. To my knowledge, no scientific study of mortalities of imported marine specimens exists. Anecdotal information available to me suggests that providing a period of rest between the times that individual specimens are transferred from one aquarium to another, during which appropriate food and shelter are provided and any apparent health problems are dealt with. Marine organisms are amazingly resilient, but they need to be given a chance. At the same time, we should acknowledge that a low level (<10%) of mortality between reef and retail is unavoidable and acceptable both economically and environmentally, as long as wild harvesting continues.

3. Species adaptability.
The contentious issue of species adaptability is directly tied to the mortality issue. No one can deny that there are some species that simply do not, or cannot, successfully adapt to captive conditions within the grasp of the typical hobbyist. Despite the fact that numerous serious, capable amateur aquarists are making contributions to scientific knowledge, we must be careful of subjecting species about which we know little to a mass-market-driven harvest. The impact of aquarium collecting, overall, may be a pinprick, when the vastness of the reef environment is taken into account. I have estimated that we take only two or three fish per hectare per year, but I nevertheless believe that we should not be taking them needlessly. On the other hand, public aquariums, scientific institutions, universities, and even serious amateurs should not be inhibited from pursuing research, either.

Each of these issues, or more accurately your response to them, has an impact on your business. The choice to operate your business in a manner that will minimize or eliminate the problems of damage to reefs and achieve a reduction in avoidable specimen mortality is frequently a purely ethical choice. What most AMDA members seem to be asking is for help in translating that ethical choice into policies that make good business sense. Within that context, the remainder of this article will be devoted to providing what I hope will be some new ways of looking at your business.

For starters, AMDA members should give themselves credit for their commitment to a sustainable industry.
Every demographic chart I've seen and every poll I have read places concern about environmental degradation near the top of the list of issues on the minds of your customers, the American public.
Irresponsible practices, if revealed, can have devastating consequences in the marketplace.
The existence of an array of "green" products, from clothing to house paint, in the inventories of big retailers should tell you something. The target consumer for these products is your customer, too. You must make people aware of your commitment.
I suggest that you create a written statement expressing your feelings as concisely as possible, and listing three to five specific policies that your company follows to avoid contributing to environmental damage. Post this statement in your store, and provide copies to your customers. Find ways to include the same message, in much briefer form, in each and every piece of advertising material you place before the public eye. If you do not talk about your own policies, who will?

John Tullock
 

sdcfish

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Steve,

You are sooooooo wrong and it is YOU who is misleading the readers(again)!

First of all, trying to organize Amda and make it worth something is needed and necessary. You can try to make it look like there is a "secret agenda" as you tried to do with your net catching program, but the truth is that Industry combined is needed to promote and push this org to reach it's goals.

Never have I said that bringing industry would be for one company's benefit nor would I believe that anyone would buy into that approach.

Believe it or not, my ideas and passion are for the benefit of the industry as a whole and not for one company's purpose. But you can go on and continue on your path of destruction for anything that is bringing or could bring benefit's to the industry.

Your approach (criticize and blame) is the easy way to handle it, but not the right approach in my opinion. If you think that my time spent working on this type of project such as trying to organizing Amda is going to be easy or help my business, then you are sadly mistaken. This is going to take alot of effort and time at the expense of my company......so back atcha Mr. Conspiracy Theory.

Best regards,

Eric
 

PeterIMA

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Steve, I am impressed with the very cogent statement that you provided from John Tullock, the founder of AMDA. From recent conversations I have had with Patrick Burton, the President of AMDA, I know that he also is committed to these principles. Although Patrick has not participated in discussions on RDO, he is committed to implementing the concepts enunciated by John Tullock to help achieve a sustainable trade.

For example, Patrick is assisting me in evaluating chemical additives in shipments of net-caught fishes from the Philippines to his stores in Pennsylvania. Hence, the study to improve shipping and handling practices that John Tullock stated was needed, is now being done with the assistance of AMDA.

Patrick does a lot to educate the public through television. He is working with teachers to educate children about the hobby in his stores. He just informed me that he has started a new hobby/trade magazine that will be distributed on both the east and west coasts of the USA. He was a biologist with the State of Michigan hatchery program, and brings scientific knowledge that he uses with his stores and freely offers to the trade his extensive knowledge about water chemistry, fish physiology, aquaculture, disease prevention, and aquarium maintenance.

I think that AMDA has taken the right road and is in good hands under Partick Burton's leadership. It is not based on false rhetoric but on actual deeds and progress by example.

Eric, What things would you like to accomplish if you were elected the head of AMDA? What principals would you adhere to? What are your goals and what would you do to achieve them?

Peter Rubec
 

sdcfish

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Peter,

Thanks for your comment. I too believe that Burton has taken a very important approach which is in the best interests of the Dealers across the country.

I will try to lay out my plan.

1. Get industry involvement. Wholesalers, Manufactures and respected figures in the industry to promote membership and awareness. Those companies I will ask for benefits to the Industry members of Amda via rebates, coupons, incentives all in exchange for joining Amda. So for a membership fee, you would receive that money and more in return for your yearly outlay of funds.

2. Expand on the website. Create a comprehensive list of value and information to the members. The possibilities are huuge!

3. Create training manuals for the retailers and husbandry procedures for members to use when hiring new employees and maintaining their livestock departments. Cover A-Z, purchasing - maintenace.

4. Create information and care sheets for retailers to pass out with every live animal purchase.

5. Develope marketing plans and business stradegies that can maximize profitability and awareness.

Etc...etc....

The reason for my wanting to become involved is that I am personally attached to this industry. I grew up watching my father operate multiple retail stores, and have seen the industry grow since the early 70's.

I feel strongly that it is our responsibility, this generation of Industry, that needs to take steps to strengthen the retailers and industry as a whole.

As far as having alternative motives, well maybe for personal reasons. I would like to leave this industry having had made a substantial impact.

Best regards

Eric
 

clarionreef

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Eric,
By personalizing disagreements you also divert the threads down the wrong path.
By making my resistance to years of demonstrably inadequate field work and poor training of cyanide fishers the issue you are shooting the messenger more then helping solve anything.
By allying with the chronic non performance of MAC you call into question your own judgement if not motives.

You wrote;
"Believe it or not, my ideas and passion are for the benefit of the industry as a whole and not for one company's purpose".
Well then, we are fellow travelers.
!
The final notion to disawow then is that you are trying to bring the GEF/MAMTI/MAC adventure into our house as a permanant fixture.
Is this is your role with them and the real mission?
And as the primary conduit for their potential "fruits" are you not then in the self service mode in an extreme way?
Just what is the mission? Or is it all volunteer service as is mine.
Disavow it all please.
Or...do you want to plead for another year of inconsequence?
As a fellow environmentalist...surely you see the hurt on the reefs that the constant non action and weak action produces.

If you want to promote sustainable fishkeeping then it can be done more by influencing your partners to act responsibly and provide some netting if not talent in their incredibly inept trainings.
I have had nothing to do with their failures. They had years and loads of cash all to themselves on that.
I called it right on Cagayancillo and Tawi Tawi....and
I warned you all that the CIA funding of this white elephant would end badly.
There are many posts to prove this and others.
How is it that specifics and events do not matter?
That backsliding and disillusioned collectors do not count?
How do you even hope to spin this sows ear into a silk purse with so little to show for it?
Steve
 

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