Does the hobby die without FedEx?

[Kalkbreath]

So the wholesaler sends the same great quality stock to both Live Aquaria's retail customers and the brick and mortars.
Thats nice to know.
Then just what is the purpose of customers buying over the web?
(other then the no fault gig.)

 

[JennM]

I think the customers deserve more credit than retailers give them. They are not uncaring, stupid individuals. Quite the contrary and I find them very honest as a whole. That is why I have chosen to help and represent them. They need a voice and I am beginning to give them one.

Well of course not all hobbyists are stupid and uncaring - but *some* of them are - I cited a few examples earlier in this thread.

As for QM's quality... I ordered a few times from them years ago, and in my opinion it was an oxymoron. I tried once to rescue a stranded shipment of theirs stuck in ATL bound for Puerto Rico during a hurricane, but couldn't get anybody to answer the phone - so I guess those fish perished at the layover in ATL...

Surely 100% of what they bring in isn't top notch - somebody has to get the dregs, and I'm sure the store ordering a few boxes is more likely to get the dregs that the 'multi million dollar' customer. That's the law of the jungle. Better to piss off a small time customer than the biggest one.

Jenn

 

[Kalkbreath]

It looks to me like they made a mistake in thinking the fish would be fine with the longer shipping. No where do they say anything like 'lets order, if it dies big deal, we'll invoke the guarantee', you are assuming they didn't care about the lives of the fish. I am not willing to make such a damning assumption, and, from what they wrote, think they actually cared but made a mistake.

They might of even felt that the extra twelve hours in the bag would do the fish some good breathing their own ammonia and poop.

But thats why newbies need to be hand held .
They dont know what their doing .... thats why we call them " newbies".

Offering no fault protection causes the customer to spend far less time considering which shipping option.

Its funny how when I ship fish like Joculators and offer no guarantee on the fish ...the customers always demand I ship Priority first or Dash.

 

[Race]

Kalk,
You cannot be serious. Why book hotels and airline tickets on the web when all of the old options are still available? Because of convenience and changing buying habits of the population. They simply prefer the net for many different reasons. Convenience, selection, and it is fun, to name a few. I am quite surprised at your question, then again you operate in a metropolitan area where things seem easy. Most of my customers do not.

 

[Anonymous]

Why is 14 days the magic number? If you sell fish at a loss and all that other stuff about profiteering, etc, why not just offer a lifetime guarantee?! What happens after 14 days that you can't offer a guarantee past that? It can't be the money, cause you're not making any off it anyway.

 

[Race]

The guarantee can be whatever you prefer but it should be at least 14 days in my opinion. Most of our corals are 30 days. Just allow adequate time for the specimen to acclimate and fit into it's surroundings. Kind of species specific really. I am going to set my standard for the hobby at 14 days as that seems to encompass most problems. I have seven years experience at 14 days and that seems fair for the customer. Fairness to the customer and livestock is what I represent.
Tired of seeing the hobbyist raked over the coals as if they are ignorant fish owners. Read what Jenn and other local fish store owners say about their customers. Generally stupid, usually their fault. I do not buy it as my customers are not that way. Mine care, are quite intelligent and I trust them.

 

[Anonymous]

I've read every post in the thread and I don't think that those people are saying what you're claiming at all. Stop the presses, but I actually agree with Dr Mac on this one. I think you're just twisting everything around for self promotion. I'll give you a shot at some more though....can you show me a link that says most of your corals are guaranteed for 30 days? Not saying it's not there, I just don't go to the site and would have no idea where to look. Everywhere I see online people keep mentioning your 14 days. If the 30 days was well known I think I would have seen that one spoken of instead.

It hasn't been 14 days for 7 years. It used to be 7 days for a while and then it was changed after.

Like the rest of the questions asked, I see mine too will go without a direct answer. Judging by your own postings you should have absolutely no problem with going for a lifetime guarantee. Wait, why stop there?! You can go lifetime guarantee on the original, and then warranty each and every spawn, clone, frag down the line! Extended of course to each owner down the line. In just a couple quick years the vast majority of clownfish in captivity will be covered by the lifetime umbrella policy!!

Perhaps your ideas you're passing on will snowball and people will start demanding the lifetime guarantee from you.

 

[Race]

14 and 30 days it shall stay for now. No magic just trust and faith in my customers.

 

[Anonymous]

Well hopefully they'll start demanding lifetime from you since you're not looking to make any money anyway...why should you care. 2) there's no difference between 14 days, 30 days or lifetime...at least the way you're talking. and 3) I don't know where you're getting "magic" from since I don't recall anyone bringing it up, but you have faith and trust in your customers so what's the difference?

Or is it trust and faith....for no more than 30 days?

Another question unanswered but I'll try again....got that link to 30 days?

LOL this might not end up as rosey for you as you were hoping it would be.

 

[Race]

Please go to Liveaquaria.com and read.

 

[Anonymous]

Another question unanswered but I'll try again....got that link to 30 days?

http://www.liveaquaria.com/

Not to hard to find.

 

[Anonymous]

Not saying it's not there, I just don't go to the site and would have no idea where to look.

Thanks.

Anyway, my opinion still stands. If this was truly what he claims it is, then it would be a lifetime guarantee and there wouldn;t be any back pedaling about it. But IMHO it's nothing more than self promotion so it will stand at 14 and 30. He knows no one else does it and likely no one else is willing to sell things for a loss, so obviously it's being done to gain more customers.

 

[Anonymous]

I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.

 

[Anonymous]

I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.

Then the other points, which Race is saying have no validity whatsoever are also valid. That if you don't offer a guarantee people might actually give a little more care and effort to making sure they don't lose in the investment they just made....live animals.

However, with Race everyone else is wrong, regardless, and he is right. I am perfectly capable of being objective and see two sides. However I don't believe he is.

But, how does making sure you are getting the healthiest of animals come into play when you are sending them to some people who couldn't care any less cause "what's the difference? I'll get my money back anyway". Doesn't matter if he has crap or the best when you're dealing with unscrupulous people.

And again, no one here EVER said all they're customers are this. But there are people like this, we all know at least one and that's where I think the issue is.

 

[Anonymous]

And heaven help me for posting something on topic of the thread, but no, if fedex decided to stop shipping corals and fish the hobby would not die. It existed long before fedex did and it will exist long after they go. To make such a statement is ridiculous IMHO.

With the ever rising costs of overnight delivery I can't see fedex ever giving it up anyway. But either way.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk,
You cannot be serious. Why book hotels and airline tickets on the web when all of the old options are still available? Because of convenience and changing buying habits of the population.

Again it seems there is this reoccurring theme here.
The life of the animal has been reduced the the same level as a Airplane ticket or Hotel reservation which may or may not get stuck in the mail.
There not the same despite your comparisons.

More fish and corals die during overnite air freight, then on the fifteen minute trip home from the local retail shop.

Which do you think the fish would vote for?
A trip in a bag a cross town or twenty four hours of ammo burn?



The changing buying habits are more about not having to be responsible if they do something wrong , then it is about some undefinable added value within the item being purchased.


Its kinda like All Gore's "Carbon Credits " ( A get out of guilt free card.)
Your telling the customer that its the Live Aquaria's fault the animal died and couldn't possible be anything the customer might of done improper.
Seems like in this system the customer might not gain any knowledge from the unfortunate event.

Kinda like taking a test in school and the teacher not grading the papers, passing every one in the class with out grading the work.
There is no way of determining if progress was made by the pupil.

You seem to assume that all hobbyists who purchase from over the web are of equal husbandry skills.

Does Live Aquaria ever tell the customer that they were likely responsible for a DAA?

Whats to prevent the hobbyists from continuing to repeat the same mistakes again and again?

 

[Kalkbreath]

I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.

Would not this hold true for the wholesalers? After all if it really is all about the original care of the livestock and not what happens to it after it leaves .
Then the "quality" should out last anything the new owner could subject it to.
Thats what Thales and Race are claiming .

 

[Anonymous]

I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.

Would not this hold true for the wholesalers? After all if it really is all about the original care of the livestock and not what happens to it after it leaves .

Sure.

Then the "quality" should out last anything the new owner could subject it to.

Thats silly. Regardless of the quality of the animal, the new owner could kill it.

Thats what Thales and Race are claiming .

Don't put words in my mouth. My finding interest is some of Races points is a far cry from my claiming the same thing he is claiming.
I don't even think he is claiming that - although assuming extreme postitions is an easy way to try to make people look foolish.

 

[Anonymous]

Thats silly. Regardless of the quality of the animal, the new owner could kill it.

EXACTLY!!!!

although assuming extreme postitions is an easy way to try to make people look foolish.

You mean like this?

Read what Jenn and other local fish store owners say about their customers. Generally stupid, usually their fault.

or perhaps making the statement that if fedex stops shipping livestock to the end use the hobby will cease to exist? Maybe liveaquaria would, but surely no one is THAT narcissistic they think they alone are the entire hobby?

 

[JennM]

I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.

Thales, there's no "guarantee" that any fish a LFS purchases for resale is going to leave their store within 2 weeks, 2 months... hell I had a really butt-ugly Orbic cardinal for 2 YEARS. Came as a sub from a supplier I no longer use, and nobody wanted this poor fish. I eventually gave it away.

So any store interested in breaking even at least on livestock is going to be picky about their sources - or well they should be.

I hold my fish before I sell them. I don't guarantee them for 2 weeks AFTER they leave my care, custody and control, but they aren't turned and burned out of a wholesaler's tank, drop shipped to who knows where either.

And Race, you twisted the context of my words by saying I consider all customers ignorant. I spend most of my day *educating* people - and the vast majority want to learn. However there are still a fair number of people to whom you can offer the education and they aren't interested. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. In fact, I would consider my customers some of the better educated ones, *because* we discuss, share experiences, successes, yep even failures, and we learn from each other. I've got 20+ years in the hobby and my knowledge is substantial, but I'm not above learning from someone else either.

But yeah, at least once or twice a week I encounter an ignoramus. That's par for the course when dealing with the public, I don't care what business you're in.

I'd sooner take care of my livestock *before* the sale. I educate the customer along their journey as a hobbyist, and give the customer the tools they need to care for the fish *after* the sale.

Maybe I don't offer a swanky guarantee like you do (although I do have a guarantee, in line with similar stores in this region), however if my customers consistently lost fish within a 2 week period, I doubt they'd still be coming back. Most people are clever enough to notice a pattern like that. My store and my reputation speak for themselves. I don't need to tout a fancy guarantee from the rooftops to prove anything.

BTW - when you ship a replacement, is the shipping free? Or does the customer have to eat the shipping again? Just curious...

Jenn