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Anonymous
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JustPhish":1476c7y0 said:
And thats prolly the reason that Race is offering a 14 day guarantee instead of an infinite one.
Yep. Already talked to him about it.
Does the hobby die without FedEx?
- Thread starter Caterham
- Start date
And thats prolly the reason that Race is offering a 14 day guarantee instead of an infinite one.
Yep. Already talked to him about it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
JennM":2cfsefk9 said:Thales":2cfsefk9 said:
I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.
Thales, there's no "guarantee" that any fish a LFS purchases for resale is going to leave their store within 2 weeks, 2 months... hell I had a really butt-ugly Orbic cardinal for 2 YEARS. Came as a sub from a supplier I no longer use, and nobody wanted this poor fish. I eventually gave it away.
So any store interested in breaking even at least on livestock is going to be picky about their sources - or well they should be.
I hold my fish before I sell them. I don't guarantee them for 2 weeks AFTER they leave my care, custody and control, but they aren't turned and burned out of a wholesaler's tank, drop shipped to who knows where either.
I am not sure how that connects to what you quoted.
A
Anonymous
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Thales":d38g7ucc said:
YES YES YES!!! But race says that's not the reason! And when everyone else says that it doesn't matter how healthy the animal is the end user can still be the cause of it's demise he says we're all wrong! Instead he says....
He's also said that his goal is to make sure the customer bears no risk correct?
So which is it? He trusts them....but only for 14 days? They shouldn't bear any risk...but only for 14 days?
Listen, if his goals were truly what he claims they are there's absolutely no reason why he wouldn't offer a lifetime guarantee. I'm curious if his customers began to demand it would he concede and do it. Afterall he's telling everyone out there to demand it from all other stores and telling the stores they should heed the demand! Goose? Gander?
I think we all know he wouldn't do it. All this dancing around is ridiculous. I feel like I'm watching a politcal debate. Direct questions, vague, flip flopping answers. He said that if fedex stopped serving end users via overnight shipping of live animals the hobby would fold. That's absurd, it won't. He said everyone should offer a 14 day guarantee to what? prove they stand behind their livetock or something?(I forget exactly) fine. He has a point. I can see his point. I don't agree with it, but I see it. However he refuses to acknowledge anyone elses point and whoelse but him could possibly argue that no one else has a valid point. Are you?
Gosh how many times have we been in a store and heard a customer ask if that awesome yellow fish with the clowns could be put with their platy's and tiger barbs in their own tank. A store should be responsible for that idiotic loss? Innocently or maliciously who cares. A loss is a loss. You think that customer would even ask that question is there's a big honkin sign that reads "14 day money back guarantee without stipulations. No matter what you freaking do, we'll give you ALL your money back"? Or would they simply say to themselves, let me give it a shot and see what happens, I got nothing to lose. That's all people are trying to say! The flip side of the coin!
The people who frequent the boards and try to educate themselves are a tiny percentage of those out there actually shopping. If they are a customer and they are on the boards they are already WAY ahead of the curve. However we all know most are not.
And finally, shame on all of us for being drawn in to yet another full fledged shameless publicity campaign.
After reading all of the responses I can only come to one conclusion.
Race only cares about the customer. The fishes and corals matter not.
I had no idea that he was shipping thousands of orders without ever seeing the product. He definitely puts the trust somewhere else and it is not with the hobbyist but his suppliers.
Wisconsin? Please. I should have seen it from the start.
Back to the original topic. If FedEx stops shipping livestock there will be no significant impact on the industry. In fact, it might see an increase due to higher sales at the local level.
There is no substitute for that "connection" that one might have with a fish. Enough said. Bag 'em up my friends!
Race only cares about the customer. The fishes and corals matter not.
I had no idea that he was shipping thousands of orders without ever seeing the product. He definitely puts the trust somewhere else and it is not with the hobbyist but his suppliers.
Wisconsin? Please. I should have seen it from the start.
Back to the original topic. If FedEx stops shipping livestock there will be no significant impact on the industry. In fact, it might see an increase due to higher sales at the local level.
There is no substitute for that "connection" that one might have with a fish. Enough said. Bag 'em up my friends!
Race":kydnsmaw said:
Race I feel like your playing some type of wholesaler shell game here to deflect heat away from Quality. Are you suggesting that 5 different wholesalers are dropshipping for you? Or does QM do most of the dropshipping for you and some of the others send stuff to your retail store? Thanks for clearing this up.
Mitch
PS
Race if you are going to out QM as dropshipping for you then you should do QM a favor and also out the other wholesalers who dropship for you. That way we won't be so mad at QM.
JustPhish":3uekaqz1 said:
Thats where I stop caring all that much. I am more interested in determining if ideas have merrit or not, or if they can do something to change the status quo of this messy industry.
Do I think he meant it? No. Do I think he really though FedEx was the only way people could ship? No. People in this industry like to talk for impact, so most of the time I ignore that stuff.
Sadly its par for the course in this forum. People are way more interested in pointing fingers or defending themselves, so I mostly write it all off. The bickering is pretty sad really. I am more interested in seeing if the problems can be addressed and fixed.
BTW, from time to time I pm posters and let them know I think the way they are representing themselves is hurting the point they are trying to make. At least one of those PM's went out tonight.
Just for fun:
If the customer asked, you betcha.
That one customer, prolly not. But a bigillion others? Maybe.
But its the extreme flip side of the coin and leave no room for middle ground. That, along with the instant polarization, is what I find so frustrating.
Thales":3c8n4gte said:JennM":3c8n4gte said:Thales":3c8n4gte said:
I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.
Thales, there's no "guarantee" that any fish a LFS purchases for resale is going to leave their store within 2 weeks, 2 months... hell I had a really butt-ugly Orbic cardinal for 2 YEARS. Came as a sub from a supplier I no longer use, and nobody wanted this poor fish. I eventually gave it away.
So any store interested in breaking even at least on livestock is going to be picky about their sources - or well they should be.
I hold my fish before I sell them. I don't guarantee them for 2 weeks AFTER they leave my care, custody and control, but they aren't turned and burned out of a wholesaler's tank, drop shipped to who knows where either.
I am not sure how that connects to what you quoted.
Well perhaps I read you wrong, but in suggesting that a store "be careful" about what animals a store selects and where it comes from, I took that to mean either to make sure the animals were properly captured (ie no cyanide) or were suitable for captive life (ie no "rental" items - things that have a poor survival rate in captivity).
LFS buy livestock on speculation - speculation that it is what our customers want to buy. The amount of time it takes to sell can vary. Like I said - once my hold time is up, the fish could sell right away, or it could take days, weeks, months or in extreme cases, years to sell.
I *am* careful on my livestock choices because I have to run on the "assumption" that the creature may be with me for a while. I'm not going to buy stuff that I think is a bad risk of dying on my watch, let alone on my customer's - if that makes any sense. That was the point I was trying to address.
When I buy a fish, it could be with me for a while - not like a turn-n-burn dropship out of a wholesale facility.
Jenn
JennM":1h97926l said:Thales":1h97926l said:JennM":1h97926l said:Thales":1h97926l said:
I think Race makes some interesting points. If a store was to offer a substantial guarantee, they would have to be more careful in selecting their animals and where those animals come from.
Thales, there's no "guarantee" that any fish a LFS purchases for resale is going to leave their store within 2 weeks, 2 months... hell I had a really butt-ugly Orbic cardinal for 2 YEARS. Came as a sub from a supplier I no longer use, and nobody wanted this poor fish. I eventually gave it away.
So any store interested in breaking even at least on livestock is going to be picky about their sources - or well they should be.
I hold my fish before I sell them. I don't guarantee them for 2 weeks AFTER they leave my care, custody and control, but they aren't turned and burned out of a wholesaler's tank, drop shipped to who knows where either.
I am not sure how that connects to what you quoted.
Well perhaps I read you wrong, but in suggesting that a store "be careful" about what animals a store selects and where it comes from, I took that to mean either to make sure the animals were properly captured (ie no cyanide) or were suitable for captive life (ie no "rental" items - things that have a poor survival rate in captivity).
That is not what I meant.
And again, you are one of the good ones and have a guarantee. There are plenty of stores that loose shipment after shipment, or order after order and they really don't care all that much what they get in. Some of these stores rotate owners ever year or two, and some just keep on going.
Or like the LFS that simply don't care.
Thales,
The only information I was trying to get out was which wholesalers enable the dropshipping game that allows him to a have business advantage over the rest of us. It is like Dr. Mac said. Setting record straight. This is the industry forum and understanding the backroom deals that changed the course of our industry, is vital to understanding the history of our industry. A great deal of the history of the marine fish business has been recorded here in the pages of the RDO (Industry Fourn) and will remain a valuable resource for someone to search someday if they want to write a book on our industry. Why do you care if Race reveals his sources? I don't dropship so I don't have any to reveal.
Mitch
The only information I was trying to get out was which wholesalers enable the dropshipping game that allows him to a have business advantage over the rest of us. It is like Dr. Mac said. Setting record straight. This is the industry forum and understanding the backroom deals that changed the course of our industry, is vital to understanding the history of our industry. A great deal of the history of the marine fish business has been recorded here in the pages of the RDO (Industry Fourn) and will remain a valuable resource for someone to search someday if they want to write a book on our industry. Why do you care if Race reveals his sources? I don't dropship so I don't have any to reveal.
Mitch
Jenn,
I actually believe that I have used about all. I do not know of one that at some time or another has not sold me livestock. Not saying there is not one but I know of no major Wholesaler that I have not had an account with. Remember, I do not sell many common and low end fish and coral. I need all of the major Wholesalers to participate and I believe they have-- or are.
Remember we broker millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of fish and coral. I am at a loss for major names that are not supplying me-- either now or in the past. Some have changed their names or sell laterally-- but they still sell me the livestock.
I actually believe that I have used about all. I do not know of one that at some time or another has not sold me livestock. Not saying there is not one but I know of no major Wholesaler that I have not had an account with. Remember, I do not sell many common and low end fish and coral. I need all of the major Wholesalers to participate and I believe they have-- or are.
Remember we broker millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of fish and coral. I am at a loss for major names that are not supplying me-- either now or in the past. Some have changed their names or sell laterally-- but they still sell me the livestock.
dizzy":2fl9k7fv said:
It seems to me that people seem to have no problem demanding/asking other people to reveal things that they wont reveal about their own business. Do you provide a list of wholesalers you use to your competitors that you have a business advantage over?
Thales":rhwl41if said:
Actually Rich we don't really have any other stores in our city that are heavy into saltwater. But to answer your question. Yes I do sit down and talk about wholesalers to the other retailers I know in the region, and yes they are competition to be sure. We talk about the good wholesalers we want to see succeed and we recommend them to each other, we also talk about the ones that are stabbing us in the back. You really should do a Loveland or Royal show sometime Rich, it is fascinating gossip.
Mitch
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