Refugiums

[ellebelle]

Try again on the pic, Chris.

Here is a photo of my fuge when I first put it in. (I'm not really skimming wet in that photo - I accidently overflowed my skimmer trying to adjust it.) Mine is not hard plumbed into my system - I use a powerhead to move water from my sump into the fuge and it drains by gravity.

 

[dgthrasher]

more fuge info and tank pictures

for those that didn't beleive my post and wanted pictures.you can see my tank here,

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/sale-trade/23817-parting-out-my-75-reef-leathers-corals.html

I actually just sold everything out of the main tank. Below you can see the refugium, even though it isn't very well lit. I still have the refugium (which I hope to move with me or sell I am still debating) and will take a few pictures when I get a chance, as I won't be home this weekend. The main tank is pretty much empty now .

for dosing, I added calcium to my top off water, calcium I made, meaing pickling lime converted with acetic acid in minimal water, then spun out the solid crap (I work in a lab). and diluted with topping off water. Strontium,MB weekly, Iodine every 3-5days, Iron weekly. Also KM Essential Elements monthly.

Other then that only krill or a piece of fish every few days to feed the grouper. I use a fluval as my return pump, and in it I have some activated charcol, some Phos-X (mostly due to the problem I describe below, needed help reducing phosphates, but I only change it out once a year) the rest of the fluval has some small bioballs. basically I like the fluval as it filters out some small crap, and was an inexpensive quiet return pump.

Personally I think a fuge is the way to go. If I had to do it again, and I am thinking about it should I actually get to set up a tank again. I would make it out of a 55gal. Where I would have 3 chambers. The middle one would be for the water comming in from the main tank. one side with the fuge, and the other side for the return water. My refugium was growing more rapidly with slower water exchange, it was also easier to get the plants to grow throughout the whole chamber. However the water going into the sump, was taking some air with it, and the airbubbles were getting into my return pump, which is a fluval 404, and causing it to make noise, blow bubbles in the main tank. The middle chamber could also be used as a quarantine tank.

 

[digitalreefer]

I wanted a hawkfish and wanted to keep my shrimp... since both are impossible in one tank, I set up a happy home for my shrimp and a few other critters that I don't want in my display. The way my system is setup, most of my excess food dumps into the fuge where my large hermits and shrimp make short work of it. My phosphates are low on a Salifert and if I can remember to bring Chris some water, we'll see how they read on a hanna. I don't really see a huge benefit or detriment to the tank, but I enjoy having a small second tank to look at and I like the look of my mangroves. Overall, my ATO was probably a better investment for tank health, but the fuge is more for looks on my tank.

Fuge

Full tank shot

 

[ming]

Display and fuge tank
both tanks plumbed together into the same sump

 

[deelucky]

ming that looks awsome,and your tank is very nice.

 

[ming]

Heres a better, more accurate color of the fuge

and a full tank shot

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Heres a better, more accurate color of the fuge

and a full tank shot

You cheat!
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Your refuge is clearly a SECOND TANK
HAHAHAHA


BTW, your tanks are beautiful-so colorful!

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Full tank shot

Is this pic still in tap water or RO/DI?

 

[digitalreefer]

Ro/di

 

[loismustdie]

Lissa: doesn't count. No FTS. I do like your little set up though and for your purposes (small tank with a few fish who benefit from pods), that may be a very good use of space for you.
Eric: Doesn't count. Needs to be an updated FTS. I know by your livestock, that is not an updated photo. That was when you first set up the tank. ANYONE can have a nice tank for a few months. It's longevity that matters.
Ming: that is not a refugium. That is a reef with algae in it. Either way, beautiful. Interesting tanks.
Dgthrasher: I got nothing for you. I will not blame your fuge for that mess. I'd blame poor husbandry and lack of water changes.
1 nice tank is all we got in 24 + hours.
:dead: and so are fuges.

 

[ellebelle]

I took a FTS to post but I can't find the cord that hooks the camera to my computer. Which is too bad because my tank looks pretty good right now - though I will be the first to admit that it likely has more to do with my less frequent feedings and more careful monitoring of levels than any fuge.

Chris, the photo that Eric posted is from last week, I think.

 

[loismustdie]

Honestly Lissa, those who use a fuge and have good husbandry practices, have nice tanks. Those who don't, don't.
I feel fuges (in your application) are pretty good, but overall, have little impact on water quality when properly set up, but have bad drawbacks when improperly set/maintained or as Wingo brought up... crashes.

 

[smoknreefrs]

why cant it be combination of all techniques. if one doesnt have good husbandry habits, then the tank will eventually look like crap sooner or later, whether it has a fuge or not. saying "i think that fuges are a great addition to a tank if they are kept correct" is probly one of the silliest statements to make. it seems seems, a bit bit, reduntant to say that if you have good husbandry skills the refugium will be an asset. of course, if you have good husbandry the tank will thrive. i need another agrument to make me feel that refugiums arent good for a tank.

if the refugium didnt work for you then maybe it was something that you were doing incorrect, and nothing to do with the fuge.

 

[loismustdie]

why cant it be combination of all techniques. if one doesnt have good husbandry habits, then the tank will eventually look like crap sooner or later, whether it has a fuge or not. saying "i think that fuges are a great addition to a tank if they are kept correct" is probly one of the silliest statements to make. it seems seems, a bit bit, reduntant to say that if you have good husbandry skills the refugium will be an asset. of course, if you have good husbandry the tank will thrive. i need another agrument to make me feel that refugiums arent good for a tank.

if the refugium didnt work for you then maybe it was something that you were doing incorrect, and nothing to do with the fuge.

Read the thread before you comment:

 

[jackson6745]

Ming+Tim, you're tanks look great! Good job!

 

[smoknreefrs]

i did read the entire thread, and maybe you dont understand what i am saying is b/c you have no idea of what you are talking about in regards to fuges.

making statements that are a given is silly. we all know having good husbandry will make or break a tank. having a refugium doest break that rule of thumb.

it seems to me that you had a bad experience with a fuges:skull:, and are going to very argumentative, and try to beat it in everyone head that you come across, that fuges are bad:banghead:.

 

[loismustdie]

I see you are fairly new to the site. You may not know about some of what has gone on and things from other threads which led to this one. It is a topic of discussion. Obviously by your response, I feel that you do not understand what is being said.
I'm not being argumentative either. This is a discussion forum. We are having a discussion. Before you critique me, you may want to get to know me first. Everything is all cool here before you walked in calling people silly.
If you would go to your mom and have her explain to you that my argument here is that fuges have very little impact on ones tank. As in my other post, I said that the room being used for fuges as well as time and maintenance, can be put towards better stuff which actually does have an impact. My silly statement of fuges and maintenance was just my way of saying fuges aren't all bad. There is better stuff out there though. They have their application and that it is a combination of techniques.
As you are here longer and go through more threads, you will see many noob's having problems and they run fuges. Guys in the advanced forums, don't have these problems and find fuges pointless and don't use them.
You will also see people correcting PO4 issues simply by removing fuges. Many of us have gotten away from Salifert PO4 kits and went Hanna. Can you say H-A-N-N-A? These are more accurate kits which are geared towards those who keep more difficult stuff and the term "I can tell what is wrong with my tank by looking at it" (like noobies frequently do), just isn't good enough. Most who ran fuges and actually tested (many don't) they found the parroted response of "I have a fuge, my PO4 and NO3 are low"... to be false.
Rather than coming in here and telling me how silly I am and how great fuges are, why not become part of the discussion and tell us about your experiences? My point in posting here was for people to prove me wrong about fuges. Would you like to do it? I'd be happy to see the pics.
This is a discussion. Please feel free to be a part of it.

 

[ming]

Its a refugium with corals in it dammit! :lol2:

 

[loismustdie]

and fish!:letitallo Either way, very cool and interesting set up. Beautiful.

 

[fritz]

Well let me join in here and say that a refugium definitely has a place in many reef tanks. Further, I think there are MANY tanks that could benefit from a refugium.

re?fu?gi?um

/rɪˈfyu

dʒi

əm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-fyoo-jee-uh

m] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural -gi?a

/-dʒi

ə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-jee-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. an area where special environmental circumstances have enabled a species or a community of species to survive after extinction in surrounding areas.

When I say "refugium" I do not mean what I commonly see setup as such. I am not referring to a place to grow algae, a place to dump a dangerous depth sand bed (between 1 and 3 inches) and I do not mean an ornate looking nitrate trap. I AM referring to a place whereby you can grow beneficial things that you could not in your display.

A refugium is place free of predation. A "graden of eden" for whatever you choose to grow; pods, bacteria a coral that suffers from predation in your display. These are great things to grow in a fuge. If I ever opt to keep a few dragonettes you better believe I'll have one insane pod factory going in my fuge. I currently use a "fuge" to cull certain strains of bacteria in a very controlled environment so that I can later release them into my display. Fuges are great IMO for uses such as that.

On the other hand, many people turn to algae to pick up the slack for an aspect of husbandry that they have neglected. I fell this is not so good a move. This had been discussed to great lengths so I'll leave it at that.

I'd also like to mention that there are many different reef setups that all run by VERY different rules. Generalizations don't apply in discussions like this in the same way that the question "How much exercise does a dog need?" can't be answered. Leathers, mushrooms, zoanthids and some other LPS thirve in systems that would be toxic to many sps corals.

So to the "Is a fuge good?" question, I ask "Is a flat bed good? YES on a pickup, NO on a sportcar"

If your goal is to supply something to your tank than yes they are good. If you're trying to make up for a shortcoming in your husbandry than NO, it's not a magic bean.