Good netting/bad netting

[Anonymous]

I am a little confused.

What is the best netting for them (or that they prefer)


1. the netting Mary Middlebrook sent which was donated by hobbyists.

2. AMDA netting

3. The netting Steve has been recommending

4. the netting MAC is distributing.

5 None of the above.

Thank you very much for taking the time to post

Wayne

Wow, after this long, you still don't get that? Must be like 50+ posts on it now, of which you've replied to many of.

Many types of netting are used for a variety of things Wayne. Barrier nets are different then hand nets, of which there are two or more sizes of. The netting AMDA donated was hand netting in the beginning, and barrier net in the last round. Mary/Mike's venture got a load of larger sized hand netting (of which wasn't available to PI at the time). Steve has been recommending all the above(in my post), and Mary/mike's venture was sourced from Steve I have no idea what your referring to as MAC netting, so I'll leave that to Mark to asnwer.

 

[Anonymous]

Forgot to add, push nets aka butterfly nets (they use hand netting in that, so I felt I didn't have to add it in the mix).

 

[Anonymous]

Greetings from Tonga.
I spent yesterday talking with 5 PI divers who are working/training in Tonga. We talked a lot about nets.
They consider the 'bad' 1/2 inch netting to be disposable, saying it only lasts for a week. The say the good 1/2 inch 'good' netting lasts for years. They say they can't get the the 'good' netting in PI very often, and when they can, the exporters who have it (donated or otherwise) sell it to them at 5 or 6 times the cost of the 'bad' netting - so they continue to buy the 'bad' netting because they can't afford the outlay for the good netting.
They say they would rather use the good netting.

Rigthy,,

Just to clarify that the nets exporters get in the PI are NOT donated, they buy them.
Also, to underline that those collectors confirm that nets are available in the Philippines, exporters are getting the right material for their collectors. The smart collectors buy the good netting that last as they say...years.

Reparing nets is part of the fisherfolk work. Trawlers have to repair their multifilament nets very often.

So MO collectors trawl? Do they bomb fish as well Where you the one who consulted Mr. Case on that :lol:
Just how much time should be spent on repairing ones nets as opposed to collecting? How much time can a "fisherfolk" spend topside to make a collection journey worth while? Yes, nets get torn, but it's how badly and how often question

To correct some more miss information your spreading, some exporters do get netting donated to them. I've personally seen it and had to navigate around the boxes at times @ my last job Thank god for 4-x

 

[Anonymous]

BTW,

I'm stuck on a boat with 3 PI divers tomorrow, any questions I should aske them?

And Gresham - no more pictures. I am on snail internet!

Reasonable request Removed the ones posted earlier, their just reposts anyways.

Can you ask em if they know of Jaime's work in PI, ie. water quality seminars? Or any others for that matter? OVI, Haribon, IMA, MAC, etc etc. Please get their take on reform in PI and what it has meant or not meant to them, either directly or indirectly. Be sure to ask about proper tooling vs simply schooling, ie training with out nets, or trainors taking example netting once done. I'd also like to hear their take on the PTFEA, ie. the Manila cartel.

 

[Anonymous]

They came to Tonga becase they got a job in Tonga. The person who hired them is paying them.

"Filipino collectors are sought after to establish collecting stations everywhere to compensate for the inability of the business class to train locals better.
If anyone sincere and half way capable in the water works with the locals, you find how wrong it is to take a white office bound businessmans racism for gospel."
Steve

Please explain what is different about this effort, from previous failures.
Mitch

Previous failures? Like what, all the area's that currently employee filipino divers, ie. the Red Sea, Belize, Soloman Islands, Fiji, Bali, Indo, etc? Which one of those areas failled?

 

[dizzy]

You guys are sure ganging up on poor Jaime. I'd think it was an honest mistake to assume the Filipinos were there to help train the Tongans. Given the statement about the Tongans out-collecting the Filipinos, it really begs the questions as to why the Filipinos were brought over in the first place. It's a bit like an American company bringing workers over from another country and then training them to take jobs away from American citizens who wanted those jobs. Are your actions suggesting there aren't enough native Tongans who want to work, or are your actions suggesting most Tongans can't be trained, like in this infamous thread: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 19&start=0
You may well argue that bringing the Filipino divers over will make more profit for the company. If that is your goal then that is fine, but IMO this is where the honeymoon ends between the green NPO and the profit driven corporation. Making money will always win out over the goal of helping the people of the country your in. Now if you have a better explanation, by all means bring it on. I certainly gave you enough forewarning that you should be prepared to address this issue.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW, their is zero NPO's helping on this project Mitch, none. It's entirelly a private business venture. Not any different then what has gone on in every other tropical MO collection area in the world, besides Mexico and the US.

 

[dizzy]

Please explain what is different about this effort, from previous failures.
Mitch

Previous failures? Like what, all the area's that currently employee filipino divers, ie. the Red Sea, Belize, Soloman Islands, Fiji, Bali, Indo, etc? Which one of those areas failled?[/quote]

These previous failures. Read this thread carefully: http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 19&start=0
Greshamand see if you conclude that previous failures have occured in Tonga. This all seems similar to what Walt has done in Fiji. For whatever reason Chris wasn't to impressed with what Walt has done in Tonga.
Mitch

 

[dizzy]

FWIW, their is zero NPO's helping on this project Mitch, none. It's entirelly a private business venture. Not any different then what has gone on in every other tropical MO collection area in the world, besides Mexico and the US.

Then what was Jim talking about when he mentioned the joint venture he was praising earlier? I guess I'll have to search for it.

 

[Anonymous]

Well Mitch, crow bars for one Steve trains them OFF them, while others hand them out like candy One thing that has plagued Tonga is shipping, not sure how one can resolve lack of freight space problems FWIW, there is a better flight being planned that will allow for a qucker shipment to the US, the main problem of Tonga.

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW, their is zero NPO's helping on this project Mitch, none. It's entirelly a private business venture. Not any different then what has gone on in every other tropical MO collection area in the world, besides Mexico and the US.

Then what was Jim talking about when he mentioned the joint venture he was praising earlier? I guess I'll have to search for it.

I'll help you out, coral farms and wild fish collections are two different things Reef Stewards solely helped with the coral farm and used zero grant money for the purpose. However, Reef Stewards has nothing to do with the training of private divers to collect MO fish. I'll let Bookfish tell the rest of the story as I don't speak for Reef Stewards, however, IIRC, RS isn't a MO fish collectors training NPO.

 

[dizzy]

Well this is part of what has me confused. Like I said earlier much of this has been leaked piecemeal. Here is one of Jim's quote from the "Peta calling the kettle black thread."

I know in the NPO I work for, we get money from many of the same people who fund these other various NPO's.
Ford, Macarthur, HP etc...
We are always having to provide progress and financial reporting back to the funders as part of our due diligence procedure.
I'm not sure how these other NPO's get grant renewals without metrics and measurable successes.-Jim
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Arg, now your talking about his day job Mitch, which has nothing to do with the ocean really. Again, I'll let Bookfish fill you in as he's in the most know about himself

 

[dizzy]

Go back and read the rest of his posting Gresham. He seems to be in favor of a joint venture between private business and NPOs. As always feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken. :wink:

Let me add this. I was looking at http://www.stickycricket.com/reefstewards/about.html and didn't see any mention of a day job in Jim's profile.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Since he's at work (day job), I'll wait for him to post in response.

BTW, like your www site, especially the FBI(Fishey Business Incorperated for those who want to belive Mitch is a nark) logo on the fishes bag

 

[bookfish]

Fair questions and I can see how there could be confusion since I work at an NPO, I'm VP of another and I plan on being ED of a 3rd.
Here's the thread where I talked about it some:
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=69689
I definitely am in favor of public/private partnerships and in this case a public (Govt. of Tonga) entity is teamed up with a private (Eddies business) entity. Hopefully this pairing will be good for all involved.
As far as Reefstewards goes, we are a pre-certification, start up NPO (operating as a "good faith" NPO till I file the p-work) with no budget, no funding and no official role in this project other then as consultants.
Feel free to ask anything that may need clarirfication.
Thx-Jim

 

[Jaime Baquero]

BTW,

I'm stuck on a boat with 3 PI divers tomorrow, any questions I should aske them?

And Gresham - no more pictures. I am on snail internet!

Reasonable request Removed the ones posted earlier, their just reposts anyways.

Can you ask em if they know of Jaime's work in PI, ie. water quality seminars? Or any others for that matter? OVI, Haribon, IMA, MAC, etc etc. Please get their take on reform in PI and what it has meant or not meant to them, either directly or indirectly. Be sure to ask about proper tooling vs simply schooling, ie training with out nets, or trainors taking example netting once done. I'd also like to hear their take on the PTFEA, ie. the Manila cartel.

Greshman,,

For your information I had the opportunity of conducting some basic workshops about water quality at collection level. We did that with the support of Aquarium Systems who kindly donated some test kits to distribute in some communities of the Province of Zambales. Why we did that? The reason is simple, we saw hundreds of fish dying in plastic bags because terrible water quality. I wished we had had more material and means to go to more communities to show collectors why the fish were dying. THEY DIDN'T KNOW. Collectors learnt that they could avoid that unnecessary mortality by changing water. For your information fish are kept in plastic bags FOR DAYS without water changes. That depends on the value of the fish.

Also, I had the opportunity of gathering MOST of the fish exporters in the Philippines to conduct a workshop about water quality/mortality.

I DO consider those workshops were very relevant and a good contribution to complement previous work.

All that work was done as volunteer I didn't get any money for doing it.
Some people did appreciate that fact and that's what counts.

 

[dizzy]

I definitely am in favor of public/private partnerships and in this case a public (Govt. of Tonga) entity is teamed up with a private (Eddies business) entity. Hopefully this pairing will be good for all involved.

Thanks Jim. I guess I forgot to go back and look at your RDO intro carefully. I'm personally not in favor of government partnering with private business. It creates to much potential for bribes and corruption. It would also seem to me that these types of arrangements might give one business an unfair advantage over their competetion. It almost sounds like a Communist approach. In a free country the two are probably better kept separate like government and religion IMO.

BTW I must be old and unhip, but I'm unfamilar with the term indie. What's it mean?
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

BTW,

I'm stuck on a boat with 3 PI divers tomorrow, any questions I should aske them?

And Gresham - no more pictures. I am on snail internet!

Reasonable request Removed the ones posted earlier, their just reposts anyways.

Can you ask em if they know of Jaime's work in PI, ie. water quality seminars? Or any others for that matter? OVI, Haribon, IMA, MAC, etc etc. Please get their take on reform in PI and what it has meant or not meant to them, either directly or indirectly. Be sure to ask about proper tooling vs simply schooling, ie training with out nets, or trainors taking example netting once done. I'd also like to hear their take on the PTFEA, ie. the Manila cartel.

Greshman,,

For your information I had the opportunity of conducting some basic workshops about water quality at collection level. We did that with the support of Aquarium Systems who kindly donated some test kits to distribute in some communities of the Province of Zambales. Why we did that? The reason is simple, we saw hundreds of fish dying in plastic bags because terrible water quality. I wished we had had more material and means to go to more communities to show collectors why the fish were dying. THEY DIDN'T KNOW. Collectors learnt that they could avoid that unnecessary mortality by changing water. For your information fish are kept in plastic bags FOR DAYS without water changes. That depends on the value of the fish.

Also, I had the opportunity of gathering MOST of the fish exporters in the Philippines to conduct a workshop about water quality/mortality.

I DO consider those workshops were very relevant and a good contribution to complement previous work.

All that work was done as volunteer I didn't get any money for doing it.
Some people did appreciate that fact and that's what counts.

Where you found a flame in me asking if they rememberred your talks is beyond me. I was truly interested in seeing if any had direct or indirect knowledge of them. I'm curious as to the trickle down of information amongst "fisherfolk". No flame intended, no any malice. Sorry if you took that part wrong.

FWIW, I think I have more then a basic knowledge of how things work in PI, even though I'm not a marine biologist Thanks for the bag tip, I haven't heard that one a BILLION times over, pictures and all :lol:

back to spelling my name wrong again jamie :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

BTW,

I'm stuck on a boat with 3 PI divers tomorrow, any questions I should aske them?

And Gresham - no more pictures. I am on snail internet!

Reasonable request Removed the ones posted earlier, their just reposts anyways.

Can you ask em if they know of Jaime's work in PI, ie. water quality seminars? Or any others for that matter? OVI, Haribon, IMA, MAC, etc etc. Please get their take on reform in PI and what it has meant or not meant to them, either directly or indirectly. Be sure to ask about proper tooling vs simply schooling, ie training with out nets, or trainors taking example netting once done. I'd also like to hear their take on the PTFEA, ie. the Manila cartel.

Greshman,,

For your information I had the opportunity of conducting some basic workshops about water quality at collection level. We did that with the support of Aquarium Systems who kindly donated some test kits to distribute in some communities of the Province of Zambales. Why we did that? The reason is simple, we saw hundreds of fish dying in plastic bags because terrible water quality. I wished we had had more material and means to go to more communities to show collectors why the fish were dying. THEY DIDN'T KNOW. Collectors learnt that they could avoid that unnecessary mortality by changing water. For your information fish are kept in plastic bags FOR DAYS without water changes. That depends on the value of the fish.

Also, I had the opportunity of gathering MOST of the fish exporters in the Philippines to conduct a workshop about water quality/mortality.

I DO consider those workshops were very relevant and a good contribution to complement previous work.

All that work was done as volunteer I didn't get any money for doing it.
Some people did appreciate that fact and that's what counts.

heh

what other people appreciate is irrelevant, what counts is what you do :wink:


as you get older, you will appreciate this more