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GreshamH":8raw6vbn said:
They said they didn't know anything about them. When were they?
They only thing I had time for was to ask the about MAC. They said they heard of it. One of the divers wives works somewhere that MAC wanted to certify, but they didn't do it because it was expensive and they didn't see the point because net and non net caught fish get mixed at the exporters.
They also said they liked training where they actually got nets and they really liked being off the juice. I asked about training without nets and they said whats the point.
Righty,
Do you think that 5 PI collectors can speak out on behalf of hundreds of collectors trained during previous work in the Philippines? I think you are smarter than that.
If you want answers from collectors go to the Philippines to the Province of Zambales, go to Isla Verde. Do not waste your time playing Grsehman game. Is irrelevant! As you said this forum could be more useful! :?
Do you think that 5 PI collectors can speak out on behalf of hundreds of collectors trained during previous work in the Philippines? I think you are smarter than that.
If you want answers from collectors go to the Philippines to the Province of Zambales, go to Isla Verde. Do not waste your time playing Grsehman game. Is irrelevant! As you said this forum could be more useful! :?
Jamie,
I asked an honest question, no flames intended and this is what I get in return? I even posted to reassure you that no flame was intended. I honestly wanted to see IF any info about several things had trickled down to these few divers, thats it. No discredit, no flame, honest question. Sure asking the area you spoke at would be a better gauge IF I wanted to hear about that area. I'm more interested in the trickle down of information in the island group as a whole, and if these divers fom another area had heard. If something is meaningful and useful, it spreads like hot cakes amongst all areas.
If you can't handle me posting on this forum, maybe it's you who needs to move on. You apperantly can not respond to anything I post with anything but a flame or jab, never anything contructive. In fact, you can't reply to anyones posts that you don't agree with, with anything but a jab. You may want to ask yourself what your doing to help. 3 posts to try say my questioning is irrelevant is kinda outa line. The continual miss spelling of my name only shows your maturity level. As a marine biologist, you should have a handle on whats going on. As a scientist, you should be less brittle and more logical. :roll: :roll: :roll:
no editting done :wink:
I asked an honest question, no flames intended and this is what I get in return? I even posted to reassure you that no flame was intended. I honestly wanted to see IF any info about several things had trickled down to these few divers, thats it. No discredit, no flame, honest question. Sure asking the area you spoke at would be a better gauge IF I wanted to hear about that area. I'm more interested in the trickle down of information in the island group as a whole, and if these divers fom another area had heard. If something is meaningful and useful, it spreads like hot cakes amongst all areas.
If you can't handle me posting on this forum, maybe it's you who needs to move on. You apperantly can not respond to anything I post with anything but a flame or jab, never anything contructive. In fact, you can't reply to anyones posts that you don't agree with, with anything but a jab. You may want to ask yourself what your doing to help. 3 posts to try say my questioning is irrelevant is kinda outa line. The continual miss spelling of my name only shows your maturity level. As a marine biologist, you should have a handle on whats going on. As a scientist, you should be less brittle and more logical. :roll: :roll: :roll:
no editting done :wink:
Gresham if you're so sensitive about getting your name spelled right, how come you continue to spell Jaime as Jamie. I think his name is pronounced hi'me not Jay'me. At least that is the way I understand it is pronounced in Spanish. I have noticed you have spelled his name wrong for years. It probably just an honest mistake, but if you get his right he will possibly try harder to get yours right. 
Mitch the peacemaker
Mitch the peacemaker
GreshamH":35w26vhx said:
Sorry, but I do not feel you are sincere in what you just said. During the last three years you and your boss have been discrediting and ignoring the work done by honest NGOs in the PI. As I said before the results were not as good as the industry wanted but we did our best. Just stop ignoring and discrediting "all" NGOs' past work. By doing that we won't waste time and could move forward.
Dizzy, you got it
:wink:
Jaime Baquero":1jo0nuc2 said:
Jaime,
Gresham's questioning is relevant as long as everyone understands that it is nothing more than what they are reporting. If you accept that there were 4000 collectors that were trained over the years, a sample size of 5 isn't enough to drawn any conclusions one way or another. A reasonable sample size to draw some conclusions would be roughly 94, based on a population size of 4000.
It is interesting that they were not very familiar with MAC.
It isn't a wide enough sample, however, to draw any sort of conclusion though.
No one on this forum is going to question (I hope) that water quality after capture is of extreme importance to the later health of the fish. The fact that this still remains an issue today doesn't denigrate any work you did in the past: It just means that these lessons are still needing to be taught, probably to the next generation.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
Hi Mike,
Yes, I agree. Water quality and fish handling and holding are very important issues to be addressed in order to offer good quality net caught fish to the industry. I dare to say that after collection issues are as important or probably more important than the collection itself.
I know there are people in this forum that DO NOT denigrate the work I did in the PI. Also, know there are two that have been doing that for years.
Yes, I agree. Water quality and fish handling and holding are very important issues to be addressed in order to offer good quality net caught fish to the industry. I dare to say that after collection issues are as important or probably more important than the collection itself.
I know there are people in this forum that DO NOT denigrate the work I did in the PI. Also, know there are two that have been doing that for years.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
THE WORTH OF AN NGO'S PERFORMANCE...
Is in the degree in which the current reality has been affected for the better.
Estimations of self worth are worthless.
NGOs evaluating themselves....? What kind of a joke is that?
The municipalities are making the changes that count the most. LGUs and local mayors are the heroes here and they have done more good in the past decade then all the NGO influence combined.
This has put into motion a "taking credit for the sunrise" type syndrome. If the slow-mo reform drags on for another decade...will they then take credit for the 'in-house, independant Filipino reforms still?
Foreigners have achieved one thing above all else....The teaching of local NGOs that squandering, embezzling and wasting time, resources, good-will, money etc...are all ok while Rome burns.
Any 'good news" you may concoct pales compared to what should've been and what was possible.
Steve
PS.
I'm here with Filipino witnesses to our history every day and what they know best is what was set into motion a long time ago....and sustained by businesses who valued them above any NGOs.
The NGO salaries to trainers in the Philippines is small and most any other deal looks better.
NGO salaries to foreigners however, with less talent then locals is large.
We North Americans are funny people when we try to fix others sometimes.
Steve
Is in the degree in which the current reality has been affected for the better.
Estimations of self worth are worthless.
NGOs evaluating themselves....? What kind of a joke is that?
The municipalities are making the changes that count the most. LGUs and local mayors are the heroes here and they have done more good in the past decade then all the NGO influence combined.
This has put into motion a "taking credit for the sunrise" type syndrome. If the slow-mo reform drags on for another decade...will they then take credit for the 'in-house, independant Filipino reforms still?
Foreigners have achieved one thing above all else....The teaching of local NGOs that squandering, embezzling and wasting time, resources, good-will, money etc...are all ok while Rome burns.
Any 'good news" you may concoct pales compared to what should've been and what was possible.
Steve
PS.
I'm here with Filipino witnesses to our history every day and what they know best is what was set into motion a long time ago....and sustained by businesses who valued them above any NGOs.
The NGO salaries to trainers in the Philippines is small and most any other deal looks better.
NGO salaries to foreigners however, with less talent then locals is large.
We North Americans are funny people when we try to fix others sometimes.
Steve
\Jaime Baquero":3lr19tw1 said:
Jaime, just for clarification, I don't work for Steve, nor have I since last November. In fact, I don't even work in MO any longer. Since you only skim my posts for what you want to read into them, you must have missed those posts of mine. I have NEVER ignored the past NGO's, I thinks thats what irks you so much
I think I've posted more past NGO acronyms then I can shake a stick at. I've concentrated on their repeated failures, yes, and some of their positive outcomes as well. I concentrate on the failures as to make sure any new attempts don't fall into the same traps that have been activated repeatedly in the past. I haven't seen much positives, hence my main concentration on the failures. I'd love to concentrate on the positives, and I wish some NGO could show us more with actions, not words.clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Like I said;
THE WORTH OF AN NGO'S PERFORMANCE...
Is in the degree in which the current reality has been affected for the better.
For some, the sustainable health of the reefs are the most important thing...
for others, the fisherman...and for one or two, the NGOs.
Strange purpose this worship of office bound Ngos...
Steve
THE WORTH OF AN NGO'S PERFORMANCE...
Is in the degree in which the current reality has been affected for the better.
For some, the sustainable health of the reefs are the most important thing...
for others, the fisherman...and for one or two, the NGOs.
Strange purpose this worship of office bound Ngos...
Steve
NGOs have been working since late 80's trying to find solutions to a complex problem the MO has created in the Philippines and Indonesia. During those years hundreds of collectors were trained and the quality of fish has improved, less cyanide is being used and collectors became excellent trainers teaching other collectors how to do things right. Protected areas were created.Things are better than before, of course that there are still many things to do. .
I wonder what has been (since the late 80's) the industry's perfomance before the cyanide issue in the Philippines and Indonesia? :wink:
I wonder what has been (since the late 80's) the industry's perfomance before the cyanide issue in the Philippines and Indonesia? :wink:
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