Good netting/bad netting

[clarionreef]

Righty

Do you want to discredit previous work conducted by honest people in the Philippines? That doesn't work, is better to recognize that something positive was done and keep working together to improve the situation.

Please stop jumping to conclusions.
I am reporting on what the PI divers I was hanging out with said. I never claimed to be doing anything more than that.

 

[Anonymous]

Righty

Do you want to discredit previous work conducted by honest people in the Philippines? That doesn't work, is better to recognize that something positive was done and keep working together to improve the situation.

Please stop jumping to conclusions.
I am reporting on what the PI divers I was hanging out with said. I never claimed to be doing anything more than that.

Who said that, Steve or Rich?

 

[bookfish]

Gentlemen, perhaps we can all agree that:
1. Past efforts on this issue have had mixed results when viewed for different metrics and measureables.
2.Review of past efforts is necessary to move forward efficiently.
3.We need to decide on our measures for "success" before we could possibly all agree on whether something was "successful".
4. We're all adults here
5. We all oppose the continuation of cyanide fishing for MO's
6. Given the size and complexity of the issue, we should, as much as possible, unite as a community. That means giving the kindest and most generous interpretation to other peoples posts. Please try not to assume too much and if in doubt about the spirit of the post, ask first, then decide how to respond.
Thank you in advance.-Jim

 

[Anonymous]

I can agree to those points.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Jim,

Thanks for the iniative.

I think that respect is an important issue. People must restrain from, accusing, discrediting, denigrating and ignoring previous efforts. For sure that mistakes were made but with constructive criticism things can improve.
Please do not forget that some individuals worked as volunteers to help finding solutions to the various problems in the Philippines. Criticizing them is as criticizing hundreds of volunters during 9/11 or New Orleans. That should be part of number 4) the problem is that all adults are not mature.

I agree.

 

[Anonymous]

jaime- your problem is that you take every generally directed criticism at past efforts of 'various' ngo's as a personal attack, when you or your efforts aren't even being mentioned or inferred, alot of the time

:?

 

[dizzy]

What what it's worth. I saw Jaime's talk at MACNA X in LA and have always felt that what he did was admirable. Even organizations that may not accomplish all that they could/should have still have many good caring people working for them. I think that most of realize that.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

This is not a referendum on the honor of volunteer people who worked for some defunct NGOs years ago....so much as a forum to chart current strategy with a professional basis.

Strategies based on previous errors that helped sink the organizations have made them are hard to defend.
Allegience to previous error is no virtue.
If the group died...there may be a reason for that.
If another group outmanuevered one and diverted the funding stream their way....well...."love and war" it is actually. The greater talent of nailing down funding has usurped the talent in actually implementing programs it would seem. Better field work has lost out to better office presentation obviously. :?

Well meaning, albiet naive people who should never have been put on the front line in the first place will often become overwhelmed and disillusioned by what must seem complicated for them.
Helping fisherman collecting fish is no big deal....if you know how to do it. Not knowing how to do it yourself however, must seem a huge endeavor. 8O
I cannot imagine trying to train diesel mechanics in Thailand for example...with or without some manual in hand....
For temperate zone Aquarium service people....this foreign field processing thing is equally dis-similar.
Yes, I'd like to see Thailand, but theres no way I could pull off the free vacation with my total incompetence in diesel mechanics.
Nice guy that Yank...they may say one day...but he didn't know bugger all about trucks now did he?
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Ocean Voice International, a Canadian NGO that worked to protect coral reefs in various countries closed down operations BECAUSE ONE MAJOR REASON, its founder and person that kept the organization ALIVE for many years PASSED AWAY. His name was Dr. Donald Evan McAllister. All the members of the Board of Directors worked as volunteers and contributed in a positive way to all the projects implemented by the organization over the years. The organization close down due to the fact that members of the Board of Directors (alive) didn't have the money neither the time to keep the organization running. Dr. McAllister was the one financing OVI.

S. Robinson got paid during the implementation of the Netsman project conducted by IMA -Canada

Vitz, as you can see S. Robinson's message is very offensive, denigrating and low. He has been doing that for years. The behavior and negativism of such kind of individual has been detrimental to the cause. Nothing has been accomplished in this forum due in part to that "smart guy".

My experience of working with fisherfolks in developing countries as well as my experience working with marine ornamental fish since 1986 qualified me to volunteer my work with OVI in the Philippines. In Ottawa I did set up aquarium rooms in four different stores (more than 1000 aquariums in total), water quality and husbandry practices are important aspects of fish keeping that I manage very well.

S. Robinson is a good trainer the problem is that he has not manners and lacks of tact. Could you imagine such an individual working with people that do not agree with him? Must be a nightmare!

 

[Jaime Baquero]

What what it's worth. I saw Jaime's talk at MACNA X in LA and have always felt that what he did was admirable. Even organizations that may not accomplish all that they could/should have still have many good caring people working for them. I think that most of realize that.
Mitch

Mitch,

It was an interesting project the one we had in the Philippines. It was a challenge. What a difficult and complex problem! As I said during my presentation the solution will come only when each one of the links of the trade gets involved in the process of change.

Thanks for your positive comments.

 

[Anonymous]

Ocean Voice International, a Canadian NGO that worked to protect coral reefs in various countries closed down operations BECAUSE ONE MAJOR REASON, its founder and person that kept the organization ALIVE for many years PASSED AWAY. His name was Dr. Donald Evan McAllister. All the members of the Board of Directors worked as volunteers and contributed in a positive way to all the projects implemented by the organization over the years. The organization close down due to the fact that members of the Board of Directors (alive) didn't have the money neither the time to keep the organization running. Dr. McAllister was the one financing OVI.

S. Robinson got paid during the implementation of the Netsman project conducted by IMA -Canada

Vitz, as you can see S. Robinson's message is very offensive, denigrating and low. He has been doing that for years. The behavior and negativism of such kind of individual has been detrimental to the cause. Nothing has been accomplished in this forum due in part to that "smart guy".

My experience of working with fisherfolks in developing countries as well as my experience working with marine ornamental fish since 1986 qualified me to volunteer my work with OVI in the Philippines. In Ottawa I did set up aquarium rooms in four different stores (more than 1000 aquariums in total), water quality and husbandry practices are important aspects of fish keeping that I manage very well.

S. Robinson is a good trainer the problem is that he has not manners and lacks of tact. Could you imagine such an individual working with people that do not agree with him? Must be a nightmare!

jaime-you're not gonna be able to give steve a manners lesson-believe me, i know

so why do you keep bashing your head against a wall? :lol:

i've brought that question up before, yrs ago-you think you're the only one who notices lack of manners and tact, so you need to scream it out to the world?

most here are intelligent enough to READ both overt, and hinted, statements by everyone-it's actually kind of insulting when you insinuate that i don't 'get' the content of steve's posts.

fer godsake man, let it go-you ain't gonna change nothing, steve is steve, and he'll always talk like steve :wink:

 

[clarionreef]

For twenty two years there has been a parade of groups giving this thing a go.
Only one of which involved the group alluded to by the previous poster.
The group in question....Haribon, only toyed with the aquarium reform topic for a small portion of this time.. Today, they are still active on other [ non aquarium related ] projects .
If ones whole take on this arises from a few years of 'involvement'...it is understandable that they would think he world revolved around them...
In 1883 the Philippine groups, Project Compassion and the Environmental Center of the Philippines looted the issue.
Then a PIJAC sponsored whitewash was held in Pagbilao Quezon.
Then another group did a fake one in Palawan and this was all before Haribon ever got a chance at iot.
Frankly, I was referring to the lot of them that continue to copy the previous chronological failures and keep as much money as possible in the city of Manila and as little as possible deployed in the field where the fisherman and the reefs are.
This was a tired old routine long before the folks in Ottawa got a shot at it.
So....when the same system of diverting agreed upon budgets from the field to the city began ....the only option for an honest person is to opt out of the program and blow the whistle on the anomalies.
False memories of history have even less merit for those that were not even involved at the time.
The Marcos groups gave way to Haribon, and the Haribon gave way to the IMA...and they in turn to the MAC.
As reformers....and I use the term tongue in cheek....what else could we call 20 years of getting paid to produce so little but a failure?
I mean we failed terribly as NGOs....We must learn from the mistakes of top down social development and return to the bottom up approach that produced the only success stories that lasted.
I'm working here in Tonga w/ a number of them and couldn't be prouder......
I know what could've been done without the imperial approach to working with fisherman.
This is not about us, Jaime....
Admit your failures as I have and learn from them.
If you are involved in anything current or relevant anymore....fine. I am, and thats why I post here.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Ocean Voice International, a Canadian NGO that worked to protect coral reefs in various countries closed down operations BECAUSE ONE MAJOR REASON, its founder and person that kept the organization ALIVE for many years PASSED AWAY. His name was Dr. Donald Evan McAllister. All the members of the Board of Directors worked as volunteers and contributed in a positive way to all the projects implemented by the organization over the years. The organization close down due to the fact that members of the Board of Directors (alive) didn't have the money neither the time to keep the organization running. Dr. McAllister was the one financing OVI.

S. Robinson got paid during the implementation of the Netsman project conducted by IMA -Canada

Vitz, as you can see S. Robinson's message is very offensive, denigrating and low. He has been doing that for years. The behavior and negativism of such kind of individual has been detrimental to the cause. Nothing has been accomplished in this forum due in part to that "smart guy".

My experience of working with fisherfolks in developing countries as well as my experience working with marine ornamental fish since 1986 qualified me to volunteer my work with OVI in the Philippines. In Ottawa I did set up aquarium rooms in four different stores (more than 1000 aquariums in total), water quality and husbandry practices are important aspects of fish keeping that I manage very well.

S. Robinson is a good trainer the problem is that he has not manners and lacks of tact. Could you imagine such an individual working with people that do not agree with him? Must be a nightmare!

:roll: Reading between the lines again? Here I thought you could adhere to what Jim has asked. It takes two to tango Jaime, and it's obvious you love to dance. This thread was about to take another track, until you decided what Steve was saying was 100% directed at you, even though no names or even references about you were included.

Try to stay on track here, and please stop shooting from the hip.

 

[clarionreef]

VITZ,
YOU ARE TRYING TO COUNSEL SOME POOR INNOCENT SOUL ABOUT TACT AND DIPLOMACY? :lol:
One cannot even speak of monkey business anywhere without him taking personal offense.

Still, on the subject of soft peddling benevolence and gentle manners, you are the guru here for sure. :wink:
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

heh

i'm not advocating anything, or claiming i'm anything, or blaming anyone for anything

just illustrating the expected results one will get from banging their head against a wall :wink:

 

[mkirda]

just illustrating the expected results one will get from banging their head against a wall :wink:

Here's the real question:

Which one will better cushion the blow while banging your head against the wall:
The GOOD netting or the BAD netting?

:lol:

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

There is enough good handnetting in Manila storage to cushion a fall from a 3 story building. :?
And as far as barrier netting goes....the 2 lb mono will provide more cushioning then the 1 lb. given they are the same length.

Last night this stuff was ordered from Tonga to send to the Philippines as so many divers still want it and cannot get it.
Since the AMDA netting donation was sold for profit by the recipient of it.... the divers could not afford it and so we still have not gotten much at all to the people who want it most.
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

OK guys I got it.

I see there is nothing to do when dealing with a megalomaniac who seems to have no shame whatsoever. Robinson has a serious personality and ego disorder.

Vitz, I agree nothing to do.

 

[dizzy]

Where's the love people?

 

[Anonymous]

OK guys I got it.

I see there is nothing to do when dealing with a megalomaniac who seems to have no shame whatsoever. Robinson has a serious personality and ego disorder.

Vitz, I agree nothing to do.

heh, the only commonality guaranteed between ANYONE in this biz is ego :wink: