Preservation Of Our Industry: What we need to do

[clarionreef]

Unusually Stupid Legislation lists cannot be regarded seriously if they are used to burden the US Fish and Wildlife Service with.
I have opportunity to talk to these guys every week...and do.
There is little less on their list of priorities then subject matter as this.

Illegal fishes based on environmental concerns and country of origin restrictions that evolve into law ...yes.
Fishes that some people cannot keep or that the masses are thought not to be able to keep ...no.
This "problem" can be educated away by google, books, fish forums, care sheets, salesman etc.
Besides...few is the percentage of coralivorous chaetodons these days in any importers list and smaller is the demand for em anyway!
I have never heard anyone in 25 years ask for a trifasciatus butterfly or a baronessa or a trifascialis. No one wants them!
The worst of the doomed lot is the pinatus bat I think and the customer scramble for them has slowed down except among one group....richer, impulsive beginners with a policy against reading and researching their care.
The notion of federal legislation to protect this victimized group is DOA is it not?
Protecting the innocent public against dangerous items? Agreed. I just went to a grocery store and they had steak knives for sale openly displayed in the aisles. Don't they relize how dangerous steak knives are to those of us who don't?
Somebody call OSHA and Homeland Security!
But seriously now...the USFWS seems to have their head on straight w/ this one.
Their mandate is not public safety or regulating things not ment for impulsive beginners.
Their mandate is far greater then that thank goodness.
Steve
This trade has some problems to be sure....fiddling around with the least of them serves little purpose.

 

[Anonymous]

From someone who nearly cut the tip off his left index finger earlier today removing a stubborn bit of 3/4 flex off a barb with one, I concur wholeheartedly about the ban on steak knives!



:lol:

 

[clarionreef]

Yes,
But it was because the salesman who sold you the knife didn't explaaaaiin it properly and besides, since when does purchasing something imply knowledge aforethought of it?
Perhaps you left your dangerous appliances guide at home.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

From someone who nearly cut the tip off his left index finger earlier today removing a stubborn bit of 3/4 flex off a barb with one, I concur wholeheartedly about the ban on steak knives!



:lol:

According to naesco the person that sold you the steak knife would be in jail for 14 years or some such ludicrious thing....

yeah, I said ludicrious.

I don't think Naesco is good for the industry, I think people who want to pass laws for every little thing in the world should all be shot...


Can you tell I don't like lawyers????

 

[JennM]

I don't think Naesco is good for the industry, I think people who want to pass laws for every little thing in the world should all be shot...


Can you tell I don't like lawyers????

Fortunately, Naesco is NOT even a member of this industry.

I'm allergic to all shellfish - so should that mean I shouldn't be able to carry them in case I accidentally eat one? It could be fatal to me, and it's impossible to stamp a warning label on them No cleaner shrimp, emerald crabs, hermits... tridacnid clams.... geez I may as well just close up shop :roll:

Jenn

 

[naesco]

So Jenn which species do you feel should be added to the list that Eric prepared?

Thank you

 

[naesco]

So, a pinatus bat and the coralivorous chaetodons should be added to the list. Anything else?

Thanks

 

[naesco]

Right you are Mitch...
Logic and experience definitely gives one a different perspective on things doesn't it?
Crafting some fish from the lab is a wee bit different then producing the commercial quantities some are prematurely celebrating.
The marine science lab in La Paz Mexico produces larval grow out all the time...tens and thousands of useless fishes in fact that no one wants.
Periodically they seperate some cool stuff to dummy up another grant with but they have to date not produced one single fish to sell worth a fraction of a days electricity costs.
I advised them on species to go for some 7 years ago and provided broodstock as well. They played with all of the species with the predictable results that everyone knows of [ except the public apparently] .
A few years into it they found that the research money granted was the real gold in them thar hills and they have been amplifying small results ever since.
Steve


Steve you commented that in certain areas of the Philippines, the Blueface Angels are decimated and only a few adults are seen swimming the areas.

Do you support leaving adult blueface angels in the wild and allowing only juvenile and larval raised into the MO market?

Thank you

 

[clarionreef]

Do you support leaving adult blueface angels in the wild and allowing only juvenile and larval raised into the MO market...

Adult blueface past say 6" yes....but enforcement of such a specific rule by USFWS? Only if legislated in Manila and Jakarta first could such a thing happen.
Legistlating willy nilly on every notion that comes to mind is a Canadian thing I belive. Jenn?? Is it a tribal custom up there?

Juvenile and larval raised blueface into the MO market...? What juvenile and larval raised blueface into the MO market... ??
There are none.
If it were so simple...it would already have been seized upon by dozens of laboratories and dealers.
The gulf between concept and reality is huge sometimes....how can you confuse them so easily?

Concept; Hoping to win the lottery.[this is where you'd quit your day job]

Reality; Actually winning the lottery. [ where the rest of us quit our day jobs] Yes...its like that sometimes.
Steve

 

[naesco]

Sorry I misread Eric's post. It was larval blue tangs that were available not blue face.

Where are the tiny 3-4cm angels coming from? Are they larval raised?

 

[Anonymous]

So, a pinatus bat and the coralivorous chaetodons should be added to the list. Anything else?

Thanks

Are you keeping a detailed list? Are you going to post it somewhere like in this very thread?

 

[naesco]

So, a pinatus bat and the coralivorous chaetodons should be added to the list. Anything else?

Thanks

Are you keeping a detailed list? Are you going to post it somewhere like in this very thread?

Just fish, coral and inverts, sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

Post edited for violating the User Agreement, and the poster has been given a week off from this forum. Futher violations may result in the revocation of posting privileges - Righty

 

[naesco]

There are now several suggestions that could form part of a USL unsuitable species list. Let me summarize>

---blue-ringed octopus
---leafy and weedy seahorses
---hawaiian cleaner wrasse
---large shark
---pinatus bat
---coralivorous chaetodons

I would like to add the following:

Philippines/Indonesian caught regal angels
Moorish Idols

Both species arrive in poor condition, have trouble feeding and die in hobbyists tanks a few months after they are purchased.

There is no point in importing these regals when there is an excellent alternative with the Arabic/Red Sea regals.

In the case of Moorish Idols, the word is out to the hobbyists, as many stay unsold and languish and die in LFS tanks.

By purchasing fish which have a reasonable chance of survival in hobbyist tanks, industry is seem to take positive steps towards industry reeform and conservation and cutting its own DOA losses at the same time.

 

[Caterham]

Naesco,

How are you involved in the trade of marine ornamentals? How many animals do you tank on a weekly basis? What is the average DOA rate that you personally experience from your imports?

Many thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[naesco]

Thank you. I answered your question in the other thread, Gaterham.

Please let us know further species you recommend be added to to the USL Unsuitable Species List.

Thank you

 

[Anonymous]

This kind of list has been tried many times in the past. What is the overall plan for this list were we all to work on it?

 

[JennM]

Legistlating willy nilly on every notion that comes to mind is a Canadian thing I belive. Jenn?? Is it a tribal custom up there?

Unfortunately, it seems to be. Just like the "Canadian" expectation that the government should take care of us from cradle to grave (boy did I get into hot water with my (now ex) father-in-law when I made that observation). He's spent the last 20 + years on government-issue worker's comp (it's all done by the government up there, not like here), unemployment and now he's on the government pension equivalent to SSI (Canada Pension Plan).

In my experience, the *main* cultural difference between Canadians and Americans is that Canadians expect everything to be legislated and the government to be responsible for filling our every need. Americans want the government kept OUT of their business as much as possible. Americans want to be in control of their own issues and choices - everything from whether to wear a seat belt or not, to how to run their business - with as little government interference/input as possible.

God Bless America.

Jenn

 

[Caterham]

Naesco,

Thanks for your reply. Please let me know if the information below is correct.

You are not involved in the trade of marine ornamentals at this time nor have you ever been involved in any capacity. The number of animals that you tank on a weekly basis is the same now as it has always been, absolutely zero. You have none of your own DOA figures, because there are no animals to track.

Is the above information correct? Many thanks in advance for your response.

 

[PeterIMA]

Caterham, Now that you have answered your questions to Naesco, lets hear your answers concerning your own dealings in the trade (I especially want to know your DOA).

Thanks,
Peter Rubec